Hey fellas, I wanted to complete and improve my intake, to extract every bit of power from my setup. My current setup consist of the obvious, lsvtec conversion with aftermarket internals. The internals consist of 11:0.0 cr je pistons mated witheagle rods; A block guard separates the block from the head, the valve train components consist of crower stage II cams along with the necessary crower titanium retainers and dual valve springs, and also some skunk 2 cam gears.
The head is a first gen b16 head, and the Intake manifold is from that same gen head, also included is a 3" intake pipe with the typical cold air induction setup and a 4-2-1 header into a 2 1/4" converter to a 2 1/4 " cat back exhaust.
My questions are what would be the best Intake manifold to use with my setup? I was considering either an ITR manifold or a skunk2? I would like to have a perfectly matched Intake, that meaning a perfectly mated Throttle bodyto IM, and a port matched to the head. Now What mm sized throttlebody mates perfectly with either manifold? Thanks
how much money do you have to spend???
I would go with the skunk2 intake man. and a spoon or bored out itr throttlebody:up:
good luck!
P.S.- wish I had that set-up, that would be sweet:D
The Intake manifold I can afford with no problem, those thottle bodies though, are freakin’ expensive! But what size throttlebody would be ideal 65mm or smaller?? And does anyone know the stock bore specs on the Itr throttle bodies, jdm prefferably?? And the car really runs great, crower doesn’t get much recognition by the import crowd, but they are really great cams, vtec is just another world!
Originally posted by C-dogg’slsvtec
And does anyone know the stock bore specs on the Itr throttle bodies, jdm prefferably
62mm USDM or JDM same thing HTH
Oh well, I guess that’s all the info I need:bored:, anyone have any experience with the Itr manifold?? Thanks for the 2 posts?
These will most likely be my next mods, with the improved airflow, considering that my fuel system is stock except for a B&M FPR, The cylinders were bored and honed .5 mm over to accommodate the je pistons and to ensure a tight ring seal.what size injectors would be ideal for my setup described above? sorry, it’s a little :ot:
i have the skunk2 mainfold itr 62mm tbody and aem cold air intake system with my b18c , but since u have more power than me i would go with this
skunk 2 itr mainfold or itr (if you have b16a or b17a head) $300
for tbody i would send out your stock tbody for boring by rc or JG or ericks racing i would go for 64mm or 68mm $ 150 -200
or buy a spoon or itr tbody (look at ebay or partstrader) $250 -400
as for intake you could go custom or basic aem ,dc ,injen ect
also a 4-1 header would help out your setup , i have the dc 4-2-1 there ok on stock motors but on a built motor i would go jdm 4-1 header
Thanks alot! That’s some good advice. I wanted to swap out my header in favor of a 4 to 1, but I am having trouble finding a 4-1 with a 2 1/4" collector. Iwas also thinking of replacing the entire exhaust in favor for a 2 1/2" exhaust, but I think that would be overkill. I was kind of favoring the itr manifold, just 'cause it’s oem, is the skunk2 one better? The skunk2 manifold is actually cheaper($). As far as the throttle body is concerned, I would rather buy one, 'cause I can’t afford any down time. I do have an old LS throttlebody, could I have that one bored out too? Or would I be better buying an aftermarket throttle body like bbk or holley? I’ll probably see what I can do with the Ls throttle body first, but thanks again for the response:up:
skunk2 is a itr knock off they look exactly the same ,i bought the skunk2 cause it bolts up to gsr head, the itr bolts up to b16 b17 and b18c5 heads only
what year integ u running?if you are running 90-91 non obd wiring as a 90-91 ls tbody can be bored out , but the newer 92-and up honda motors have map and tps sensors that you will need for your tbody check out ebay look under bored throttle body , honda tbody ect for one
as for headers no need to change your exhaust jdmhondaparts.com sells the piece you need to convert the 2 1/2 collector to 2 1/4 thats what im going to do
you where asking what perfectly matchs up tbody to mainfold both itr and skunk are match at 62 mm so to match up u would need a itr or bored stock tbody to 62mm good luck
I can bore a throttle body out with my friends Mill. Its quite easy actually, and its almost free.
Originally posted by 92lsR
[B]skunk2 is a itr knock off they look exactly the same ,i bought the skunk2 cause it bolts up to gsr head, the itr bolts up to b16 b17 and b18c5 heads only
what year integ u running?if you are running 90-91 non obd wiring as a 90-91 ls tbody can be bored out , but the newer 92-and up honda motors have map and tps sensors that you will need for your tbody check out ebay look under bored throttle body , honda tbody ect for one
as for headers no need to change your exhaust jdmhondaparts.com sells the piece you need to convert the 2 1/2 collector to 2 1/4 thats what im going to do
you where asking what perfectly matchs up tbody to mainfold both itr and skunk are match at 62 mm so to match up u would need a itr or bored stock tbody to 62mm good luck [/B]
Thanks alot 92lsR, That is good to know, I have an extra Ls TB,but i might just buy an aftermarket 62mm TB; And I have a 93ls btw, thanks again; options has the Skunk2 manifold at 254 bucks!
best intake manifold, hmmmmmm
i don’t want to burst your bubble, but, the itr intake manifold is not the best intake manifold that honda makes for B series motors. i have seen some testing on the 2nd gen b16a manifold vs itr, and the results were very suprising. i don’t want to start a war amongst G2ic members, but, i’ve seen the 2nd gen b16a manifold (which i think is the same as the 1st gen in terms of runner length and plenum volume) crush the itr from 1400rpm up to 8350rpm, by an average of 4-5 whp and 3-4wftlbs, on a b16a motor. it was not until 8400rpm that the itr exceeded the b16a manifold. to spread out this comparison, these manifolds were then tested on a 2L ls/vtec. both manifolds were then extrude honed and placed on to the respected mule. the results once again favoured the b16a manifold from 2000rpm up to 7500rpm, the extruded itr manifold did not surpass the b16a manifold until 8100rpm. it is obvious that the itr manifold is designed for very high rpm, the question is, should you sacrafice power throughout 90% of the powerband to gain a bit of top end??? i wouldn’t for the simple fact that honda motors can’t afford to lose torque over a large spread of your range.on top of that, your car will be a bit sluggish if you street race(no,no) if you can gear your car to stay above 7500 rpm after the shift and your rev limit is 9800rpm then the itr is the better choice, but that is not the case. i would port your existing manifold and leave the itr alone. as for throttle bodies, the B16b has the same size throttle body as the B16a, 60mm. 160hp vs 185hp. porting will make a difference but i don’t think it has to be huge. i think 63.5 should be suffice. just my 2 cents. good luck. peace:think:
nas-T-nos… i find your info very interesting… and something i’m going to keep in mind.
the only thing i dont agree on is this… i’m not sure about the CTR TB, but i know the rest of the b16a2’s are 58mm and not 60mm…
the b18c1’s have the 60mm TB and the ITR has 62mm (i’m sure u already know that tho)
that info about the b16a2 IM vs ITR IM on the internet? i’d like to read about that myself 
thanks.
Yeah please post a link to that info. I already ordered the skunk2 manifold… I don’t want any downtime, I rather just install a new manifold.
where’s the proof???
after searching for what seem like a year, i found one piece of evidence. are you racers familiar with HCI Magazine? the issue is August 2001, the cover of this decent mag is a NASTY goldish pearl sunfire. starting on page 94, the shootout begins. ITR intake manifold vs. Del Sol intake manifold. i don’t know if this can be archived form their webpage, but i do know that you can order back issues. unfortunately i can’t scan the pages form this mag and post the entire artical, but i can hit you off with some quotes form the article. i hope that i am thanked for this info, and before people start attacking me, i am not dissing the ITR manifold, that piece is some of Honda’s finest work, but, if you don’t wind the sh*t out of your motor (9k+) then i feel that too much torque is sacrificed throughout the entire powerband to achieve a steady stream of power above 8200 rpm, that’s not practicle to me. and most people should know that these B series vtec motors need all of the torque that they can get to actually pull HARD up top, which is the reason why people go towards max displacement when in search of vtec. (B18, ls/vtec, crvtec etc).anyway that’s somethings else. NOW FOR THE PROOF: the first test mule for the shootout is a 95 del sol stock long block, cams & intake manifold. the stock intake manifold had been port matched to accept an RC eng. 64mm t/b along with an AEM (short) air intake system. the motor was further equipped with an APEXi Tri-Y header originally designed for a JDM ITR with a 2.5" open race exhaust. the timing and A/F mixture had been optimized using a AFPR regulator and a custom programmed MUGEN ecu. the B16a motor sported (U.S. spec) Del Sol cams that ran without the aid of cam gears.the c/r was stock, 10.4.( i really don’t have time to type this out so i must place bits and pieces from the article) the del sol motor produced 164whp & 116 wft/lbstq using the stock del sol manifold. an extrude honed del sol manifold was then placed on the motor. temperature levels were duplicated as this has a profound effect on the power output. the B16a was run with the extruded manifold and it produced positive results. the motor obviously benefitted from the additional airflow offered by the porting, with peak power increasing by 4hp and gains of 5hp available near 8000rpm. (the mag shows all of the dyno testing) the ported manifold bettered the stock one by 1-2hp throughout the entire rpm range, with a sizable gain near 5000rpm. next was the trick ITR manifold. this intake offered shorter runner lengths and a larger plenum. both changes contribute to enhance top-end breathing, but at the sake of low speed torque. on the ITR motor, the added displacement and the very nature of the high rpm motor contribute to the efficiency of the shorter runner intake. with the higher redline and more displacement, the 1.8L ITR can really take advantage of the additional airflow offered by the ITR intake. does this apply to the B16a as well? the answer is no. after swapping the 64mm t/b onto the ITR intake (also extruded) and bringing the B16a up to temp, the motor was rung out to see how the ITR intake fared against the del sol intakes. the dyno tells the story. with the exception of a few points along the curve, the B16a lost power all the way to (an slightly beyond) 8000rpm with the ITR intake(compared to either B16a intake). the ITR roughly kept pace with the extrude del sol intake from 3000rpm to 4500rpm, but then lost power from 4500rpm to 5200 rpm. the ITR seemed to keep pace briefly during the vtec operation, only to lose out to the del sol big time ( like i said before, the dynos are in the mag) for 1000rpm. oddly enough, the ITR rallied back for 300-400rpm around 6200rpm, but then lost out once again until well past the power peak. in fact, it wasn’t until nearly8400 rpm that the ITR managed to surpass the peak power produced by the del sol( at a lower engine speed). only after 8200rpm did the ITR really demonstrate its merits on the smaller B16a. running repeatedly beyond 8200rpm would require ITR valve springs( the cams wouldn’t hurt either) but even then, the gains offered by the ITR intake are minor at best.
Stay tuned. tomorrow, i will post the remaining info on this comparison with the same intakes on a 2L stroked B16a to satisfy the bigger displacement lovers. will the ITR prevail, or will it be the often disregarded Del Sol intake, once again???:getsome:
Well yhou have to also understand that I’m not using a complete b16a, i have an lsvtec conversion(duh), with 11.0cr pistons and aggressive cams, and in this setup I am running a b16a manifold, the car does run lovely, and I don’t rev past 8000rpm’s, I was thinking of porting and polishing the Intake manifold, but ithink a skunk2 would be beneficial, but I would hate to lose any existing tourque.
faits attention
if you read my post, then you would realize that part #2 of this comparison has the editors placing the del sol & ITR intakes on a 2L motor, and to make a long story short, the del sol intake once again outperformed the ITR intake form idle to 7500rpm, after that, then the ITR showed its value, but only above 7500rpm, as the ITR lost hp & tq throughout the entire powerband. what cams are you using, because if they are aggressive, then i’m sure you do not reach your desired peak hp, if you are not revving past 8200rpm then why buy or use aggressive cams? as for the skunk2 manifold, it’s an ITR that is designed to fit all b series motors. it has different bolt patterns to fit the ls & Gsr. if anyone tells you that it is ported or extruded, they are mislead, if anything, the skunk2 has a slightly larger opening at the t/b, that’s it, so, essentially, you would be adding an ITR to your vehicle. good luck. the problem with modding your motor is that so much info is out there. the question is where do you find the truth? through testing. don’t think that because 95% of the people that mod the b18 with the ITR intake means that it is the best. yes, Honda knows what they are doing by placing this manifold on the ITR, but it does not mean that it has the best all round power output. that manifold is made for top end ONLY. think about it. the B18a/b, B18c/5, B16a1/2, all have different intake manifolds, yes. and the Type R motors sport the same manifolds on both B16b & B18c5 (wait, do the 1.6b & 1.8c5 share the same intake, but i’m running ls/vtec, not B16 (duh)) well then why when you mod a 1.8L Gsr with only an air intake and exhaust, it puts down pretty much the same hp and even more torque throughout then the ITR? it’s the benefit of the dual stage intake. answer me this question. if the B18c makes as much power as the B18c5, with only two mods, then is the ITR manifold better? before you answer, REMEMBER, the B18c has .6 less compression, smaller cams, throttle body, no headwork, heavier intake valves, retainers, weaker exhaust springs etc. if you do enough research, you will find that in more cases then not, that when you do things the right way, more time you will be different from the rest. one last thing, the other day i logged on to a site and one of the members had a 10 sec turbo civic. the existing motor was a usdm B18c with, you guessed it, the stock Gsr intake (modded of course). don’t always believe what you see. the ITR is very good, but if you do not plan on racing all of the time, with your tach exceeding 9200+ every shift, then don’t waste your time. :danger:
Thanks for the reply NasTnos, my cams are crower’s 63402a vtec cams, not as aggressive as Toda spec B’s if that’s what you thought? So your advice would be to keep the b16a manifold on there? Do you agree that I should upgrade the stock ls throttlebody? I thought that it would be beneficial to the engine set-up with an improved intake. The car already dynoed at 196whp.
I believe that you mean the b18c1 which is the gsr engine, the b18c is the jdm type R, b18c5 is the usdm type R. I couldn’t afford neither so I built a poor man;s gsr;)
63402a?
are those cams the stage 2 turbo version? o.k, wait a minute. you put down 196 whp, right? what rpm did you peak at? and what were your torque #'s? as for the ls t/b, if it’s stock bore, then of course you should port it. another thing. the ls/vtec is not a poor mans gsr, it’s a wise set up that improves the vtec’s lack of mid range tq. to be honest, by lowering your redline and broadening your powerband (increased cc’s), both reduces the valvetrain stress and improves drivability. 196whp is pretty good, but when you port the existing intake and throttle body, you’re gonna want to rev higher (8400rpm), trust me, your tach will spin. good luck, and keep me informed of your project. peace.:burnout:
Hey Nas-T-nos, what up? Those cams are the stage II vtec cams; you can check them out on www.crower.com under honda. Tourque was at 141 lbs at 4800 rpms, my car made that power at 7800 rpms, the weird thing is that nothing has been tuned, as far as the ecu fuel map is concerned, even the skunk2 cam gears are yet to be touched.
I was thiniking the same thing about the throttlebody and intake manifold mods, I would have to probably rev higher to get their full benefit; The ecu I am running is the Delsol p30, it’s rev limit is at 8100rpm’s. I am kind of afraid of messing with the current powerband, since it runs and pulls really nicely. At this point I know it’s hard to get more power, but I just crave more! later.