lol kids just looking for an excuse to break crap. Same thing with the riots in Canada…Lose hockey game the next logical step is to destroy their own city. That’ll show them!
start seeing people as individuals.
I don’t care how long of a response people type, if you don’t know the difference in your and you’re, I’m not taking you seriously.
This shouldn’t be about race. It should be about the fact that a person took another person’s life, and that person should be held responsible for his actions. When are people going to realize that a life is a life, and that race doesn’t change that.
Okay we’ll put someone younger and more agile than you on top of you, bashing your head into the pavement, and just let you die because nobody should be able to defend themselves.
Defend himself? Zimmerman and Zimmerman alone put himself in that situation. He was told multiple times to stop
following someone who was doing NOTHING WRONG. Don’t look for a fight and then be a pussy and pull out a gun when you are getting your ass kicked.
Take it for what you will.
Unless Zimmerman’s balls ascended into his body and his voice became mysteriously higher it was not Zimmerman screaming for help before the shot(s).
Also this is taking place in someone’s back yard. It’s not like the kid ambushed the guy at his car.
[QUOTE=integgieLS;2253604]Defend himself? Zimmerman and Zimmerman alone put himself in that situation. He was told multiple times to stop
following someone who was doing NOTHING WRONG. Don’t look for a fight and then be a pussy and pull out a gun when you are getting your ass kicked.[/QUOTE]
Is asking someone what they are doing in a limited access area, dressed like a thug (yes, wearing sunglasses at 12 am is suspicious as hell), an excuse to assault them? When you are in a place that has a security guard, and they question you when you are allowed there, do you jump on top of them and start beating them?
Knock it off with this crap about “he was told to stop following him!” Have any of you ever called 911? The operator always tells you not to do something. They are a call center employee. They don’t give out legal advice, they don’t give out medical advice. CALL CENTER EMPLOYEE.
I don’t agree with the way (from what I understand) that Zimmerman handled this, but he didn’t murder that kid, he will NEVER be charged for this. People who are angry about this, can’t even articulate a single relevant point in support of their feelings.
So, Zimmerman was going to die before he pulled out his gun to kill Martin in “defense?” Oh, ok then.
Didn’t matter if he was physically going to die. If he had a genuine reason to be in fear of his life (someone on top of you bashing your head into the concrete qualifies) he had justification to use a firearm in self defense. Period. Race has nothing to do with it beyond all those claiming race had something to do with it.
[QUOTE=Stu;2253647]Is asking someone what they are doing in a limited access area, dressed like a thug (yes, wearing sunglasses at 12 am is suspicious as hell), an excuse to assault them? When you are in a place that has a security guard, and they question you when you are allowed there, do you jump on top of them and start beating them?
[/QUOTE]
At the same time, Zimmerman was a self appointed armed patrol. Judging from that he wasn’t even on the community’s payroll. He was not trained as such, and did not know policy (i.e. not to pursue someone, and then confront them). I’m all for policing your own neighborhood and all but at the same time intentionally confronting a suspicious, possibly dangerous person isn’t a good idea. You can bet the fact that he was armed with a gun encouraged his pursuit.
one of the recorded 911 calls states that someone with a white T Shirt was standing over someone else. We know Trayvon had a hoodie on, so Zimmerman wasnt even wearing a uniform. Yeah, it’s suspicious for someone to walk around in a hoodie in the morning. Its also pretty suspicious someone following you in a car, getting out approaching you in just a regular t shirt in a dark area.
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7L8wQo7rL8
not a white shirt, but still, not a uniform, or any identifying marks of a security guard.
and:
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html
Trayvon aint no angel. I’m guessing he saw an uninformed person following him on foot, and then decided to do a little confronting himself.
If you say so. I’m sure Zimmerman just wanted to use his gun to finally shoot someone being top flight security of the world and all. Shooting someone over a fight is about as dumb as these gangsters have been doing in low impoverished poverty stricken neighborhoods where these things happen because they got beat up one day and come back to shoot them.
Everyone who cares about their neighborhood is self appointed security. I call the police at my place on a regular basis. Whether he was wearing a uniform, or knew HOA policies or not is all completely irrelevent. Contrary to popular, and stupid belief, you don’t need to wear a uniform to confront people, you don’t need special training, you don’t need special training. Similarly, the HOA is just an agreement of the residents on how to manage the money collected to maintain the community parts of the neighborhood. There is NO HOA policy that would enter into a situation like this. To suggest so would be similar to suggest that the police handled the Columbine shooting poorly because they were unaware of the policies of the PTA and the DECA club.
What this boils down to is that one person (Zimmerman) approached another person (Martin), because he thought he looked suspicious. Martin responded with violence and physical assault. That’s not the correct way to respond to someone who is questioning why you’re out walking around his neighborhood (inside a gated community) in the middle of the night dressed like a thug.
Of course Martin would be equally suspicious of who this dude is following him in a car and getting out to approach him, and had he been walking down an alley, instead of through a gated community, his initial reaction might have been more appropriate. This time around though, we have two people who made poor decisions toward each other, and it ended up with Martin getting killed.
Quit acting like this is some big tragedy that doesn’t already happen every single day. Freedom isn’t free. People are going to have to come to terms with that and really understand what that means. If we let race baiters in the mass media rile people up like this, without being able to objectively consider events like this, freedom will no longer be possible.
I dont know if FL has guidelines, but here’s a start from CA’s:
http://www.sacsheriff.com/crime_prevention/documents/neighborhood_watch_04.cfm
Seeing that the “neighborhood watch” is a national organization though. It’s not just a mere single volunteer but a community effort.
Make sure your citizen patrol:
Undergoes training by law enforcement and have their support;
Works in teams;
Wears identifying clothing -t-shirts, caps, vests, .jackets-or reflective clothing or patches;
Never carries weapons of any kind — e.g. guns, black jack, mace, baseball bat, or knives;
Never challenges anyone;
Always carries a pad and pencil, and a flashlight if it is dark;
Is courteous and helpful to residents of the area being patrolled: and
Keeps logs and files reports with the local law enforcement agency.
I think the only thing he did right was carry a flashlight. Had he even had a partner with him this probably would’ve been avoided.
Kind of funny how the “Stand your ground” law was mentioned. Seeing that Martin expressed concern over the guy following him (who apparently never identifies himself, is wearing nothing to indicate he is anyone of authority), both invoked “stand your ground” rights. If Martin had a gun and killed Zimmerman, he wouldn’t have known better that he was neighborhood watch.
While this occurred in a gated community, that doesnt automatically make it safe (vs. a back alley). Like Zimmerman, Martin could have thought he was a mugger. In any case this occurred in a dark area of the complex with little light. It would be no surprise if Martin feared for his life.
I do agree, both people made poor decisions that resulted in a death.
But making mistakes does not excuse someone from consequences. A legal case can be made against him for whatever it is.
on a slightly related note: i dont think any of us would think kindly of some stranger following you home at night in car and on foot saying nothing other than asking what are you doing. I doubt the first thought is oh, he must be a LEO or something.
The Boy Scouts of America, MADD, and D.A.R.E. are national originizations as well. Let’s just be realistic about what an “orginization” entails.
Any reatail store has policies for just giving up money when robbed, and doing whatever the bad guy says. These policies are ALL put into place as measures to reduce risk of lawsuits.
Is asking someone what they are doing in a limited access area, dressed like a thug (yes, wearing sunglasses at 12 am is suspicious as hell), an excuse to assault them? When you are in a place that has a security guard, and they question you when you are allowed there, do you jump on top of them and start beating them? Completely irrelevant. Zimmerman was not a security guard and had no right to be questioning anyone. I would have told him to fuck off. He was not in any type
of uniform and had no authority to question anyone…period.
Knock it off with this crap about “he was told to stop following him!” Have any of you ever called 911? The operator always tells you not to do something. They are a call center employee. They don’t give out legal advice, they don’t give out medical advice. CALL CENTER EMPLOYEE. Do you think before you type? Who said anything about legal advise? 911 operators deal with these types of calls day in and day out and generally tell people not to do things that would endanger themselves or worsen a situation. Zimmerman had a hard-on for this kid (“These guys always get away…”) and ignored good advice which was to wait for a trained law enforcement to arrive. He didn’t and someone died.
I don’t agree with the way (from what I understand) that Zimmerman handled this, but he didn’t murder that kid, he will NEVER be charged for this. People who are angry about this, can’t even articulate a single relevant point in support of their feelings. He definitely murdered that kid. He might not have set out that night intending to kill someone but his actions directly resulted in TM’s death. Are you going to argue the fact that if he hadn’t followed TM, this would have still have happened? It’s funny, gun nuts can’t seem to wrap their heads around the fact that some people are too dumb to own a gun.
Since when is a uniform required to “have the right” to question someone? If Martin had told him to fuck off, he’d probably be still alive. Instead, he bit off more than he could chew and attacked Zimmerman. Martin wasn’t wearing a uniform, but it was okay for him to get physical with someone?
Of course it was. An armed, law-abiding individual was curious why he was dressed in a manner common with criminal behavior in an area where criminal mischief had been occurring.
If that’s not reason to jump someone and attack them, to prove yourself to your thug friends later, what is?
I seriously doubt Zimmerman would just leave him alone if he was told to screw himself.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html
- The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense. Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman or a “good samaritan.”
There’s even an anecdote about someone striking another with a hose and got killed as a result. Yup, the shooter was convicted of manslaughter.
Carrying a gun does not make someone “free-lance” police. If he wanted to do community watch he should have done it through proper channels where he would have learned non-confrontation procedure. Not sitting in his SUV carrying a gun waiting for something to happen. Florida doesnt have an open carry law, so one can only assume Zimmerman either had a CCW or was breaking the law. Not so law-abiding. He’s not a LEO, and already did his duty of reporting it. Zero need to pursue on foot. No crime was being committed, just someone walking by himself at night however suspicious he “looked”.
Do you really think Zimmerman would follow someone into the dark if he wasn’t armed? Jeez the cops were already on their way, stay the fuck in your car. If Martin actually attacked him while he was in his car then you can shoot. This is just a case of an idiot with a gun. We can all agree that responsible CCW owners dont put themselves in harm’s way (not to be confused with intervening in a crime in progress).
I think most people in that situation would have shot. If not then they’d probably be in intensive care or worse, DEAD.
As of right now I’m going to wait for more evidence to come up and make my decision. Right now it goes back and forth between both parties.