Well basically i know how to rebuild an engine, but i was planning on rebuiliding my 90 Integra Gs and i’ve never rebuilt a honda engine before. I also wanted to rebuiltit to handle more power like a turbo. So can someone give me like a little review and some parts that i’ll need to purchase for my car. i’d really appreciate it. THANKS ALOT!!!
Well, there is no in between. Either you know how to rebuild your engine or you don’t. There can be no guess work when taking on this task. And you need to decide if you want all motor or turbo before you rebuild your motor. Once you decide, get back to me and I’ll give you a run down on what you need. Later.
I’m curious about this too, as I’ve heard that a rebuild can cost $1500-$2k. For non turbo application please. TIA
I had a related question… im going to rebuild my engine and i didnt know if i could just rebuild for normal driving or what because i want to turbo it in the near future… i didnt know if there were special components to rebuild for turbo/daily driving use…
Ryan
Okay, well, I don’t have my complete write up yet on motor rebuilding, but I’ll give you a brief summary.
First turbo or all motor. This is a quesiton that NEEDS to come first before you go ANY further. Why you may ask? Well, it’s a simple matter of compression. Higher compression is better for N/A setups and lower compression is “safer” for boost.
How much compression is too little or too much? Many things go into calculating how much compression is safe, but they all come down to one thing…combustion chamber temperatures. The hotter it gets, the better chance of detonation/preignition. Unfortunately, the higher compression you run, the hotter your combustion chamber will get. Then all that heat when added with an octane level that doesn’t burn clean enough, and you get preignition. This is when the cylinder temps are so hot that it ignites without spark. I’m sure you could see why that would be bad. When a piston is coming up there goes another combustion trying to force it down as it’s coming up. BAD, BAD, BAD!
With boost, most people running over 10psi try to stick with 9.5:1 compression or less (more boost, less compression). There are people that play with even higher boost at higher compression, but that’s a big risk.
With all motor, most people are aiming for the 11.5:1 mark. That’s about the highest you can go and be “safe”, but it also depends on what octane gas you have in your area as well. 11.5:1 is safe on 92 octane, but pushing it. There are some pistons out there that are designed to run safely at higher compression (12:1 or so) on pump gas (Endyn/Wiseco Rollerwaves), but I’d recommend staying below 11.5:1 for a daily driver. Low compression on an N/A setup is not a good way to go. Major power killer. So that’s why I say you should decide now.
What needs to be replaced when rebuilding a motor. Here’s my “small” list… (some are performance modifications that are “optional”…
FOR BLOCK:
-Pistons (optional) & rings (or just rings)$100-$500
-Forged Rods (if going turbo or using NOS) $350-$650
-Honda or ACL Main/Rod/Thrust Bearings $200
-Block Machine Work (clean, hone, deck, replug & retap, maybe balance) $400
FOR HEAD:
NON-VTEC
-Crower or Web Cams (optional) $275-$350
-Cam Gears/Toda, Spoon, AEM, or JUN (optional unless you get cams)
$200-$300
-Valve Springs/Match with cams (optional) $150
-Titanium Retainers (optional)$150
-3-5 Angle Valve Job, Port/Polish (optional) $500-up
VTEC
-ITR/CTR, JUN, Toda, or Spoon Cams(optional) $450-$1000
-Cam Gears/Toda, Spoon, AEM, or JUN (optional unless you get cams)
$200-$300
-Valve Springs/match with cams (optional) $200-360
-Titanium Retainers (optional) $150
-3-5 Angle Valve Job, Port/Polish (optional) $500-up
OTHER STUFF:
-Injectors 270cc or higher (optional) $340
-Fuel Pump 255lph (optional) $150
-Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (optional unless you get cams) $60-$200
-Cap & Rotor $30
-Fuel Filter $25
-Water Pump $65
-Thermostat $20
-Oil Pump (good idea to replace, but not necessary unless bad) $100
-Head Gasket $65
-Distributor O-ring $1
-Valve Cover Gasket $14
-Spark Plug Seals $8
-Oil Pan Gasket $14
-Oil Pickup Tube Gasket $2
-Cam End Plug $5(STR $30)
-Cam Seals $10
-Main seal $15
-Rear seal $10
-Timing Belt $65
-Timing Belt Tensioner $50
-Clutch (If stock clutch, good idea to replace at this time $250 (Performance clutch $400)
-Performance Chip (extended fuel and timing maps, higher redline optional) $200
This is just a quick list I worked up. Anyways, you can see rebuilding a motor is a major undertaking, but a great learning experience. Feel free to e-mail me with any questions.
dan, when you listed parts for the head rebuild all the parts were optional. Which to me just seem to be power adding or redline increasing mods. What about the parts that actually wear down and need to be replaced when the head is rebuilt? (I’m not sure specifically what they are, but i’m sure there has to be some—like valve seals??)
also, Portflow charges $750 for:
disassemble/ clean/ inspection
port & polish
multi-angle radius valve job
deshroud valve area in chamber
polish chambers
surface or mill to customer spec
assembly
but if you took them a head that needed a rebuild the cost would be higher right? (cause those “wear” parts would also have to be replaced?)
I think i’m going to be buying that b17a we talked about. The guy said it ran and drove when it was still in the car, but burnt oil (bad 3rd cyl rings) and that he had to constantly adjust the valves… so, its sounding like a good candidate for a rebuild and swap! As you know i’ve pretty much got the low down on the block rebuild, but i still need to learn about what all is involved when rebuilding the head.
thanks
colin
Colin,
Usually heads don’t need to be rebuilt, but there are occasions that they do. In these cases, yes, the valve seals and sometimes the guides need to be replaced. And reseating the valves is a good idea.
Portflow will charge you $940 to replace valve seals, install bronze valve guides, multi-angle radius valve job, port & polish, deshroud the valves, polish the combustion chamber, mill it to whatever CR you desire, & install valve springs and retainers. So this is a complete rebuild of the head. Of course you will have to supply the new valve springs and retainers. So if you got CTR, you can pick up some ITR valve springs and Portflow or Crower Titanium retainers. So for a brand new head with all of the following, it will cost you about $1400 to do this. To just get the head refinished by any head shop, it will cost roughly $450. But you don’t get any of the “special” treatment.
Let me know if you have any questions.
ok, well I’m just gonna have to see what develops. I think i’ve investigated as far as possible with the info i have. I’ll take the head to a local shop and see what they say about it and decide from there as to how much needs to be done.
If possible i’d like to be able to throw it on there in stock condition. At least that way i have an engine. Then i can save up for the headwork and valvetrain and do it all at once later down the line. Cause i know i won’t be able to afford: cams, valvesprings, retainers, and the portflow headwork after i’ve just finished spending $$ on the engine/tranny/ecu and a rebuild of the block.
thanks dan.
i was also thinking of getting cams or maybe cam gears. Which one would be better or both. What power differences could it make and what kind should i get???
I just want to add a couple concepts to Dan’s post. I haven’t rebuilt an engine on our cars but I have experience with the engines we use on our Formula SAE team( I would have finished rebuilding an F3 engine tonight if the dealer had given us the right con rod bearings). You definetly want to decide if you are going FI or NA. Remember, if you are going NA, the way you will make power is by how well the engine breathes(cam timing, cam profile, cam gears, porting and polishing, etc…). And as Dan said, you should raise compression considerably from stock. For turbo, compression is a big issue. The problem is heat and detonation. I don’t think I need to write about this considering Dan covered it better than I could have. The concept I wanted to introduce is water injection. I haven’t heard anyone menton this technique on this board. It is simply another way to combat the excessive temperatures that FI engines produce. Many people have managed to make thir own water injection systems or they can be bought at a relatively decent price.