what are you guys using for your fuel management? I’m want to run like 440 injectors but the stock ecu can’t idle very well with them ( from what I been told). SO I was looking for something that will work well and won’t cost a fortune like a hondata and won’t need dyno time to tune since I don’t have access to a dyno.
yeah, guys with 440’s say that the ECU won’t idle those. Typically, at the very least you’ll need a SAFC or some other peripheral FUEL controller. I just bought some 99GSX DSM 450’s, and may try those before I get my ZDYNE standalone.
you should spend the money for a hondata 2B and have it dyno-tuned wherever you go… cause even with an apexi controller its hard to get it tuned right, unless you or somebody know EXACTLY what you are doing good luck
well I don’t have a dyno on my island ( from hawaii) so any system that needs to be dyno’ed is kind of out of the question. I’m looking for a plug and play type of deal that can idle 450cc injectors. I have a apex afc but tuning that have been a pain. any suggestions?
Standalone. Company’s like ZDYNE, send you a base program to run with until you make it to a dyno-that will idle 440’s. Again, eventually it’s made to be tuned for the details of your engine to be the most efficient.
Sounds like you’re out of luck then. The ONLY way you’re going to get 440s to work is with a stand alone system and some time on the dyno.
I’m running a SAFC with 310s. With so few points at which you can make adjustments you really can’t use it for anything aggresive like 440s…
what are the biggest injectors a stock ecu can idle? I was told 370. will that be big enough to support about 16 lbs of boost?
My ECU wouldn’t even handle the 310s. Even if the ECU could take 370s it wouldn’t matter. The stock ECU can’t read boost…
Originally posted by Haberdasher
The stock ECU can’t read boost…
Missing Link is a quick fix, or the ghetto check valve method.
Also, HABERDASHER are you runnin a standalone, if so which one?
haberdasher, how much boost are you running? and what is your best 1/4 time?
The missing link will only keep the MAP sensor from sensing positive manifold pressure and triggering a CE light. What you need is a MAP sensor that can read positive pressure and a computer that can read the signal from the new MAP. If the computer doesn’t know how much boost there is it can’t calculate a proper AF ratio.
The idea is to get the engine management system to work like the engine management system from a factory turbocharged car like a Eclipse or something. It needs to be able to read boost and adjust timing on the fly, a knock sensor is a good idea too.
Missing links are only recommended for up to 10psi, over that and you should really be running standalone anyway.
I’m using a SAFC to control RC 310cc injectors with a missing link right now. I’m running 11psi of boost. Haven’t ran the car on a 1/4 yet but it did a 9.3 in 1/8 mile with bad traction problems mostly due to the poor track surface (spun the tires through 1st and 2nd). The SAFC is a good alternative to standalone but it doesn’t offer the resolution neccesary to tune the car very well. I don’t recommend going past 310cc injectors and using a SAFC to control them, you can’t tune it with enough precision to run safely with a setup that pushes more than 10psi.
I’ll be running a Zdyne SECU soon…
Edit: I’m running 320cc injectors, not 310s…sorry for the mix up
Edit: It doesn’t matter what the biggest injectors the stock ecu can handle. Once the motor gets under boost the computer is going to turn into Rain Man (too much pressure, too much pressure, I get my JE Pistons at K-Mart, have you seen the movie?) and not know what the hell to do with all the extra air.
I am in the process of turboing my 91 GS Teg. My kit is now complete and my bottom end is my next project before I slap the two together. I am very foggy on injector size. This whole cc thing throws me off. I am used to injectors sizes in lbs instead of cc’s (domestic mentality). At any rate how much hp to the wheels can 310cc injectors handle? Isn’t there any other methods of tuning these injectors without losing your shirt and all the money in your pocket? Can’t we use a different Map sensor to handle all these issues(3 bar)? What problems arise when you run 440cc injectors on a stock ecu with remapped fuel and spark curves? I have the following:B18A non vtec motor
JG head fully ported
JG 1001 cams
JG stock intake ported
AEM cam gears
Vortech FMU
Custom turbo manifold
Richard Lee wastegate (holds up to 800hp)
Custom front mount intercooler
2 1/2 intercooler piping
HKS blow off valve
PYR ecu with upgraded fuel and spark curves (rev limiter set to 8600rpm but I shift at 7300rpm
T3T4OE turbo (dash 3 feed & 8 return to pan)
B16a J1 tranny with LS 5th gear (but still have my ls tranny if traction becomes an issue)
Clutch Masters Stage3 clutch & pressure plate
lightened stock flywheel (from 18ounds to 13)
Aluminum crank pulley
B&M fuel pressure reg
Buick Grand National intank fuel pump(works great & supports up to 400whp)
2 1/2 exhaust
Bottom end will have forged pistons,ARP rod and head studs, sleeved, typer oil pump, and this motor will have 9.5 to 1 comp.
What can I expect for hp numbers, and what problems can I expect tunning the car? I am unsure about what injector size to run and what ignition system if any should I run?
mike, most of your setup looks decent, but here’s the things i would change:
-
forget about a remapped ecu. no chip-burner is going to be able to tune your ecu for your exact needs & purposes. The maps will be off & pretty much worthless. stick with a factory ecu with a removed rev limit. to tune fuel, either rely on an afc (budget method), or buy a standalone (zdyne, dfi, speedpro…). if you do go with an afc, i would say that 370cc injectors are probably the largest that you could still idle. others may say 440’s but i’ve never seen that in person. with 370cc injectors, you can support upto near 350whp levels on an fmu (less with a standalone due to reduced fuel pressures).
-
if you plan on incresing your redline, run aftermarket valvesprings at the least (though ti retainers would also be a good idea).
-
lightened stock flyweels have been known to shatter at higher hp levels, taking out at least the tranny but usually more than that. stickwith stock or pay money for an aluminum unit.
-
you don’t need an aluminum crank pulley. the honda ones come harmonically balanced. aftermarket ones, especially at higher hp levels can lead to oilpump gear failure due to vibration/harmonics/stress.
-
use a -4 feed & a -10 return
-
for ignition, stock or msd