BUT, Im really not swimming in the cash. I drove a 95 GSR this weekend at an autox. I never even had to get outta first gear. His shift light was set to shine @8500. I never saw the light and was revving the hell outta it. Never lost power either, that was the really cool part. He has recently installed ITR pistons, Skunk2 intake and cams, and some other stuff like the ECU upgraded. This car was very impressive to me, and I was throughly disappointed once I got back into my car.
My question is, whats gonna be the cheapest, most reliable way to convert my car into something simular to that? I still need to be able to drive my car daily and roadtripability, but I want some freaking umph. Im very uneducated when it comes to swaps and internal work on the Hondas so any imput would be appreciated. Im not intersted in top speeds persay, but I like to travel fast. My main concern is of course autox. Having a first gear that long with the amount of pull that car had was almost ideal for me. Will I have to abanden the b18a alltogether, or would ls/vtec be an option? TIA.
shenrie from what i heard to do lsvtec right it cost a pretty penny ask leo(93b18) you could do a b16 althought i see alot of people say dont but its your car and your money so do what u want! also im not sure if you want vtec or not cuz if you dont u could always rebuild your motor!
hth maybe some more people with more knowlege than me can help!
Do what I’m doing and get a b20 engine. I got that engine specifically for autocrossing. Alot of torque.
Putting in 10.5 JE pistons,
port and polish b18b head
b18b Intake manifold
b20 TB
ARP bolts
GSR/ITR Block girdle, windage tray, and oil pickup
Crower cams, retainers and valve springs
13lb lightened OEM flywheel
Exedy Clutch
I should be getting about 160ish whp and 140ish wtq.
That should be more than adequte for the track. And if you want to stay in first gear raise the redline of the b20 engine but make sure you definately use a block girdle if you do that. With a b20 you will be able to either keep up or smoke a GSR easily. So watch out Ryan!!!
Can’t wait till mines done! Almost a few more months and the all mighty all engine beast will be unleashed MWWUUUAAAHHH!! Can you tell I’m excited…lol
Tourque is good! How much are those mods setting you back if you dont mind me asking? And did you have to buy the whole b20 motor, or can you find just a block?
Ryan, I actually talked to Leo for a few about it till my computer at home cut him off. I had a line on a chaep b18c1 head, but he had a change of plans. Ive thought about the b16a changeover, but Im concerned about torque. Thats something that Id like to increase, not decrease.
Do you really want to know…it might make me cry!!!
Well the b20 engine I got for about 800 shipped
the pistons and rings, and shotpeened rods I got from amerikan for 500
The port and polish head I got from some guy a ways back for about 150.
Got the b18bIM from another memeber for about 100, and some other stuff, so it was like 50 bucks.
The flywheel I got for a trade so cost me shipping (20 bucks)
LS crankpulley I got off of ebay -15 bucks
The GSR girdle I’m getting from acuraautomotiveparts.net It cost about 60 for that, the windage tray I think another 30 and the oil pickup another 30 - that place is cheap
Everything else, like gaskets I’m getting from another guy off the internet for really cheap. I still need to buy the ARP bolts and clutch. Then I’ll b done. I’m almost done with the bottom end, then off to the machine shop to get balance. The crower stuff will cost a grip another 600 I’m assuming
Its pretty expensive, but I’m doing alot of unnecessary things to the engine. I want it to be built like a tank. Also with ls/vtec its crucial that the engine is built up right especially for daily driving (why I’m not doing it) And the b20 is just beautiful with torque!
Shea, actually you would be surprised by the B16A with some good cams and a nice ECU program. I just installed one about a week ago and I was REAL impressed. Pulled extremely hard. Now the only difference between this B16A and most others I install is that this one had a modified ECU. Jeff is extremely pleased with his B17A in his Sedan. You rode in it didn’t you? Well, being that you are in the NW, you know we take care of our own. Need anything at all, call on me. We’ll get you hooked up.
Originally posted by G2guru Shea, actually you would be surprised by the B16A with some good cams and a nice ECU program. I just installed one about a week ago and I was REAL impressed. Pulled extremely hard. Now the only difference between this B16A and most others I install is that this one had a modified ECU. Jeff is extremely pleased with his B17A in his Sedan. You rode in it didn’t you? Well, being that you are in the NW, you know we take care of our own. Need anything at all, call on me. We’ll get you hooked up.
Dan, yes I rode in Jeffs sedan. Very impressive of course! First “fast” sedan Id ever been in;)
Ive seen many b16a packages for around the 1200 range. That to me is a decent price for the amount of hp I gain over the b18a. Now my question is, is that the gearing I would want? Are the gears on the 94 and up GSR’s different? This particular car pulled so hard at the high rpm range that it didnt even need second gear. This is ideal for me. Now for as far as the motor goes, would cams be the ticket to making the b16 a bit more torquey? Or is that in the gearing? Also, do you recommend a “package” deal or should I try to piece together a motor/tranny? I really want to try to aquire a LSD while the car is apart too.
Sorry for all the questions, but like I say, Im new to the motor modifying part of this bussiness:shy: Any advice is welcomed!
The B16A has slightly less torque than the B18A, but it’s hardly noticeable with the gearing. If you put them side by side, the B16A teg will take the B18A teg over and over again. The high rpm operation is well worth the loss of torque. I would pick up just the motor, tranny, and ECU. I saw them as cheap as $975 from http://www.jspecjdm.net. Shipping costs about $190. The gearing is perfect for high rpm operation. The gearing is identical to the USDM ITR. First gear and the final drive are the same as the G3 GSR tranny, but it has slightly shorter 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears. I think you would be really happy with the B16A. Toss some CTR cams in there with a better computer, and you’ll be VERY happy. I would just do a Quaife if you are planning on going LSD. Let me know if you have any questions.
thats sounds like a good idea what dan said cuz then if u upgrade the valvetrain to say itr valvesprings and retainers
and ctr cams then u can safely rev to 8600 im sure that will make up for any torque loss!
good luck in whatever u decide to do! see u in may
That does sound like a good compromise, especially for under a grand. What would a set of CTR cams run me. And what kinda ECU upgrade would do you recommend, and at what pricerange.
Whats the difference between the b16a bottomend and the b18c bottomend? Could you put say ITR pistons/rods in the b16a block, or would there be machining involved? Also the guy said hed give me his GSR pistons and GSR cams off his 94 if I wanted them. Would these be interchangable or even worth messing with?
well i know if u did a b18c bottom end and b16 head thats a poor mans itr and i dont think 94 gsr cams would be worth it a yes there would involve machinging to fit itr or jdm itr pistons in a b16!
Originally posted by shenrie
[B]That does sound like a good compromise, especially for under a grand. What would a set of CTR cams run me. And what kinda ECU upgrade would do you recommend, and at what pricerange.
Whats the difference between the b16a bottomend and the b18c bottomend? Could you put say ITR pistons/rods in the b16a block, or would there be machining involved? Also the guy said hed give me his GSR pistons and GSR cams off his 94 if I wanted them. Would these be interchangable or even worth messing with? [/B]
CTR cams run anywhere from $450-$600. I see a lot of different prices here and there. I can’t give you a definite answer on the ECU upgrade, there are a lot of programs out there and I really can’t say which one is better. I’m sure someone with more ECU experience can tell you.
One difference is the B18C has a 7mm deck height advantage(taller) to the B16A. If you’re working with a B16A block the only pistons that would outright give you an HP boost would be CTR pistons. JDM ITR, US GSR or US ITR would lower the compression in a B16A. As far as the cylinder head is concerned, you can go as far as your wallet will take you.
Hey Shea…
well looks like the HP bug bit yah in the ass =) well speaking fom my experience, lack of torque is one thing, but great gearing is another…
u gotta lot of options, b16, b20 with a b16 tranny, or even b18c if u can find those nowadays. then there’s always building it… if u decide to go there… just take your time… or three yrs in my case =( all u HFL and BlackSquad guys know what i’m talking about. price wise b16 seems the best option… throw in some decent cams and take off those heavy ass 18’s of yours and get some lightweight 15’s =D u don;t autox with the Shu4’s do u?
If you’re working with a B16A block the only pistons that would outright give you an HP boost would be CTR pistons.
Thanks for the info. Is this mod worth the money is would cost for the CTR pistons? Or would it be better to try to find a b18c block and try to assemble the poormans ITR. What kind of numbers (roughly) would the poormans ITR yeild?
take off those heavy ass 18’s of yours and get some lightweight 15’s =D u don;t autox with the Shu4’s do u?
Riiiiiiiiiight. Uh no, I dont race with the Shu’s, BUT they arent heavy either. The Shu’s w/tires are only 3lbs a piece heavier than the 95 GSR’s w/tires. Actually Im leaning twords 16’s again. But yes the hp bug has bit me. Plus this guy is gonna be in my class this year so imma need some kind of advantage. The doods a natural:( Im prolly gonna regret ever inviting him out.
Thanks for the imput so far everybody, Im getting quite edumacated:read:
I have some excellent info for you I could scan and send over your way. If you drop me a note, we’ll set something up. You may not have to change out the head after all. If you resleeve, overbore and use larger domed pistons (or itr stock) you can bump your compression maybe up a full point or so. I would change the rods too though or have your’s stregthened up to add support to the bottom end. I wouldn’t bother with the aftermarket pullies… have a machine shop cut your’s down and/or drill it out. Add shorter gears and some properly tuned cams and you may be suprised what you can make of your B18A head. You could always throw the entire interior out also… lol
If you want some good tuning literature and info about swap combinations with the 1.8, let me know. I am also thinking of getting bitten by the bug shortly… lol
Shea… w/ the b16… i would go w/ the ITR pistons (that’s what i’m going to get for my b17) w/ CTR Cams. The CTR pistons will raise the compression ratio a little too much (depending on your setup)… the ITR pistons would probably be safer for a moderatley upgraded engine.
and you will notice a big difference w/ CTR cams… i love mine. very streetable … not quite as aggressive as some aftermarket cams, but still a good upgrade (and you have the peace of mind knowing it’s genuine honda parts).
don’t get the 94gsr cams… they have the same profile as all the other gsr cams… they are a little more aggressive than the b16 cams, but my 92-93 stock cams are the same thing.
Can you tell I’m excited…lol