Well as far as budget goes like to keep it under 2,000. It will be a slow build honestly. So if I go over not a huge deal as long as it’s not all dropped at once. Instead of type R cams what about just using the type R head? And is wanting 250-300 unrealistic? Which might sound like a stupid question to some. But it’s a serious one. And before I go and rebuild it then just drop it in the car. Should I “up grade other aspects of the car” reason I ask is, I don’t want to get ahead of my self build the engine when I should have fixed something else up. I appreciate all the feed back thus far!
Well, let’s look at some motors and their power…
B18B 1.8L LS: 129hp
B16A 1.6L Civic Si: 170hp
B18C1 1.8L GS-R: 180
B18C5 1.8L Type-R: 197
K20Z 2.0L Type-S: 210
K20 2.0L Civic Type-R: 220
Those are all crank-horsepower numbers. When you hear about people’s dyno results, they tpically mean WHEEL horsepower.
So to be blunt, that 197hp Type-R becomes about 170whp.
That 210hp Type-S works out to about 185whp…
So, in short, yes, a goal of 250-300whp (hell, even crankHP) is very unrealistic… especially for 2k.
Look at my build list on Page1 of my thread… All those parts got me to 187whp. The cost was substancially more than 2k. Here: http://forums.g2ic.com/showthread.php?203377-Long-build-in-process
You don’t necessarily have to go as far as I did… but if you’re “rebuilding” a motor, virtually everything needs changed…
You need:
Hot-tanked (motor cleaned)
Cylinders honed or possibly bored to 81.5mm (versus 81mm stock)
Valve job on the head
ARP Headstuds
ARP rodbolts
ARP main bolts
Full bottom end gasket kit
Full top end gasket kit
Shot-peened (strengthened stock rods)
And that’s all just to run the internals you have… B17 pistons have virtually no dome on them… Really low compression. So for all motor power, you’d want to bump it up with aftermarket pistons. ($500’ish). Aftermarket pistons need aftermarket rods… ($500’ish). Cams? Another $200 at least… my ITR cams were brand new and I paid $400.
Things add up VERY fast when doing a motor.
Did you glance at that B17 build thread I linked you to? Plenty of people post their build specs and dyno results… See what it takes to get THEM to those power levels. Then search around for prices for the parts they used… you’ll get an idea of what power costs what money.
I’m willing to go over on price. If I can get some good power.
Is seeking 200 unrealistic then?
I mean using the
B17 block
CTR pistons
Type R head
Bigger injectors
All Arp studs and bolts
And a good tune?
By the way great thred! I really like the paint job. Actually helped me out with my build
Thanks man.
Stock injectors are good up to 200whp… I wouldn’t upgrade unless you want to do the pump as well. Being that our cars are 20 years old, upping the demand on an old fuel pump can spell failure.
Those are some decent numbers that could be easily improved with a more aggressive set of cams.
I’d stick with JDM B16 pistons rather than CTRs, but that’s just my personal opinion.
With our small motors it’s hard to put down big power… especially with the B16 and B17. The reason why they perform well is because they rev high and you want to use cams that give good mid-range and high end power. With upgraded cams comes the need for upgraded valves and valve springs.
Porting and polishing is great to gain extra power.
This is a list of what it took to get a B16 to 198whp. You’d need a setup similar.
I see. So I’m guessing stick with a B16 head as well and not the ITR head?
Go b16 you can bolt on Itr intake mani and header n it’s similar to Itr anyways but Itr has custom ports that came from Honda but I hear b16 heads work good man my advice search cl local for a complete motor swap vtec that is and swap n drop n drive and feel vtec for a budget of 2000$ buy a swap
B16 head is fine…
The B18C1 GSR will bump up compression slightly because of the compression chamber shape.
The B16 flows very slightly better in the top end. It is also a more common head so its easier to find parts for. ITR/B16 intake manifold bolt pattern are the same… GSR are GSR specific.
Type-R head is great, in stock form. But the ‘Type-R’ price that comes along with it, eh, not worth the hype. If you’re building a serious motor, all three heads would need a race Port & Polish job.
Since you already have the complete block I would run that, for sure. As long as the rods, crank and block are in good shape you can make good power and be completely reliable.
B16 head, stock port, no polish.
Port-matched (to the head, and throttle body) ITR or Skunk2 intake manifold.
ITR or ported b-series throttle body. MaxBore does them for a good price
2000-2001 USDM ITR/JDM ITR/JDM CTR cams, they’re all the same. '97-98 ITR were less aggressive
Skunk2 tuner series would be a good cam… Crower are popular also. But whatever ones you go with, make sure to get valve springs that match the profile of the cam. Even ITR… don’t run them on stock B16 valve springs.
JDM B16a pistons.
With older, high-mileage motors a lot of times the cylinders are not round anymore… they’re moreso oval because of the pistons friction. Since the motor is apart, I say get the block bored and honed to 81.5mm. You can still run OEM oversized pistons/rings, and get a tiny bit more compression out of it.
ARP everything
EBay tri-y header (2.5" outlet) is the best bang for the buck, but our cars have clearance problems with headers. Quality pieces and ddifferent styles do fit a bit better
I recommend a 2.5" high flow cat… but I have to adhere to emission laws. Most people run test pipes.
Stock fuel system, new filter, stock fuel rail, stock regulator. As long as everything is clean and working correctly the stock system is fine for your needs.
Calico/King/OEM/ACL Race engine bearings
OEM/Hastings piston rings
'96+ vtec b-series oil pump
22T (22 teeth) vtec water pump
OEM timing belt tensioner
OEM/Gates Racing/Toda/Greddy timing belt
I recommend all OEM gaskets. They are spendy but they last and quality is virtually perfect.
With a GOOD tune you could see a solid 190-200whp.
Some people may disagree with going that far for such little return. But if you go through with it, and have it assembled properly, you will have a very stout, FUN motor. It will rev high and make great peak power. Best of all… It will last.
Yes you can buy a B16 motor or GSR motor for $800 or a full swap for that 2k… but if you build a motor, not only will it make more power than that stock GSR, it will be ZERO MILES, versus the unknown history of a Japanese swap.
I believe I know what I need to buy now. Before I dig into this, I was shooting the shit with a guy from a local performance shop. In passing I said something about the B17. He proceeded to tell me, not to waste my time that I should build the b20 I have. Thoughts and opinions?
B20 is a great motor, but they aren’t made to rev high.
ARP main and rod bolts definitely help… But you’ll always have the issues with weaker sleeves. Going high compression on stock B20 sleeves isn’t recommended because higher cylinder pressures are the cause of cracking them.
[SIZE=5]It honestly sounds like my best bet is to build a b18 or spend the money and go K series[/SIZE].
Well, that’s a whole other can of worms…
If you say your budget is 2k’ish, that won’t get you far as far as Ks go. An actual K swap will run you 6-8k to do correctly.
The B18 will put down more torque, but about the same power as a built B17.
You have to realize that you’re dealing with small motors… they don’t put down ‘serious’ numbers compared to big 6cyl and 8cyl motors.
The B20vtec setup can be awesome… just like I said you have to reinforce the bottom end (with ARP hardware) and keep the compression kinda low.
It all depends on your budget and goals man.
You have a p61 block run Itr or b16 head that’s a cool set up a lil more comp n stroke then b16 but not as common as you see I like that (not hating) but yea I’m going b18c block Bc springs retainers n keepers then ferrea valve set up with sk2 cams done slot of research and Itr cams best for stock head or budget build but shit man you could create your own monster!
Question are you strictly doing this to revive a dead b17 or do you wanna gain as much power n tourqe out of a motor it’s up to you vtec is cool
Also I have everything for a head rebuild for Ls new from Bc we used cams but the stuff was assembled in a buddy’s car ran started and then dude bought a fucking Audi lmao then I swooped in never been legitly ran. the cams were used and stage 2
I’m willing to take my time spend the money for a k swap. The more I read actually. The more I want to K swap it. I feel I’ll be yhe happiest if I buy the parts for the build over time. Then in a year or so do a k swap I could get a lot of power for what the teg is. First I feel like I would have to build the body first. I don’t have a hell of a lot of knowledge for the k swap. Just makes me a little nervous that you have to grind off a mount. That’s some permanent modifications. And Mnda90 I lole the B17 because it’s the red headed step child of honda engines. They’re hard to find. So that’s why I wanted to build that.
Why I want one myself but I am going na Gsr n JDM b16 cheap easy maintainable I love bseries don’t know much about I excpet there a beast ass g2 swap
I’d really recommend downloading HybridRacings PDF file. It has some really good info that can help make the decision if K is right for you or not.