I’m just wondering how a supercharger is different when compared to a turbo as far as the application goes. I know the difference between the two:shy: . This is what I’m talking about:
A turbo likes low compression, longer geared transmission, etc. How are these things and others similar or different when compared to a SC?
Does it prefer bigger displacement, shorter or longer stroke?
Are any of the DOHC b-series engines better when compared to the others? I always thought nonvtec was better for a turbo and vtec was better for a SC. Is that right? Thanks.
i wouldnt put a supercharger on anything less then 2.5 liters of displacement. the requirements are generally the same. turbos and scers both like low compression etc. From what i have seen, a super charger on a honda is worthless. Yea i’ll probobly get flamed for that but bring it on :mad:
I still dont know why you are in this club Formz, but oh well. The only real reason that I can think of for having more displacement is to provide the torque to spool the charger before it makes positive boost. Just because its belt driven. One downside to a supercharger on a front wheel drive car is the instant torque mabe by the supercharger. Torque steer is a biatch (although a fun one at that)
here we go 
I’m going by numbers here. The fastest I’ve ever seen a supercharged civic si go is 13.7. This is with the vortech kit, intake, full 3" exhaust, pulleys, 7psi kit i think, and a **** load of other stuff. I ask you this, dont you think with a proper turbo setup a 13.7 would be a lot easier? Answer: yes, its simple numbers.
And it didnt really have anything to do with “you need such a displacement to run a supercharger” i was just estimating because thats what I have seen good results with.
I’ve got my fire suit on, bring it
Let me be the one to speak from a common playing field…
I am a HUGE fan of SC’s… i love the idea, I love the sound they make, the biggest problem is what little Formz was getting at in a round about way. Many SC’s generate too much drag for what they do for a smaller displacement engine. Much like running a huge turbo on a small displacement engine.
It is all about matching things up… I have an Eaton M90 in my basement, would I put it on a honda? Nope. Would I put it on a DSM? Nope… would I put it on my buddys’ 454 big block… maybe… but it is a little too small for that big ole engine…
And the moral of the story, Size matters
Ok so the only things left to be answered are does a SC like longer geared trannies like a turbo does because it seems to me it would take to shorter gears because there’s no spool up time. Also, vtec or nonvtec or does it not matter?
According to formz bigger displacement is better so would the b20 be the more suited engine for SC’ing?
Formz, haven’t seen a SC 4-banger run better than 13.7? Who wants to bet b17vortech will run better than that if he has any traction?
sorry, i neglected to mention that was on a 2.1 60ft time. but still, if we’re going to stay fwd here, compare a few cars…
put the fmax kit on a SER, capapble of 400hp and 11 second slips with the supporting mods (i know, i have a friend who did it. 409hp to the wheels on stock motor except for cams)
or maybe a FWD DSM, throw 3500k at that thing and wham, you’re running 12s.
my point, superchargers on smaller (honda, ser, ect) motors just dont seem to work. pete gave you the technical aspect as to why, my job is just to hit it home.
Displacement isnt an issue…when it comes down to it… it is about matching it up properly…
and I am not a huge fan of VTEC on FI engines… BUT far be it for me to say it shouldnt be done… I will leave that open.
yeah, and Formz isnt stretching the truth, I know Jay’s SER… it is the definition “how’d he do that”
Traction is a huge problem with FWD, thats why I dumped my G2 GSR…
Pete
Formz, are you neglecting the fact that turbos can have their boost increased from inside the car where as you’d have to swap out pulleys to increase the boost on a SC? All I’m say is most SC are at less than 10psi of boost where as most people who have turbos will increase the boost from their daily-driven number when dynoing or when racing to well over 10psi?
Re: superchargers
:mad: Mine certainly isn’t worthless. 
I am not a big fan of the roots style SC’rs but the centrifugal ones are proving themselve pretty quickly. Turbo is surely the cheaper more proven path to get good power on a honda. My SC allowed me to keep my AC and PS. With a little tuneing and a 10psi pulley I’ll be making 330-360HP out of it which is more than any turbo I’ve seen that allows you to keep your AC. SCr’s aren’t out of the game for hondas, they’ve just started. The link below is a sample of what you can do if you give up your AC.480HP SC Civic
My B17Vortech: 275WHP/187TQ
whiteyg2rs, i’m just saying kit wise. A person with a SCer kit on a stock honda motor will run GENERALLY the same amount of boost as a person with the exact same motor setup but a turbo.
a yea, that 480hp civic looks streetable :roll:
hey and look at the power! 480hp and how much torque? ohhh 296 hahahaha… i put out more then that on my talon.
we’re not comparing race prepped cars, we were (i think) just talking street cars.
Let me translate for Formz…
Yeah 480hp is pretty cool, but when you need a set of slicks to drive to the grocery store… that is kinda nuts you have to admit.
I personally would love a complete tube chasis civic with 480hp for the track… it might be torqueless, but hte burnouts would sure be a load of fun
Pete
That 480HP civic was obviously built for raceing, the Supercharger kit in it is just as streetable as a high powered Turbo. I am pretty much ok with all the points made by Formz TSi and Witckraft. You guys are obviously pretty knowledgable, but I wanted to clear a few things up.
From what i have seen, a super charger on a honda is worthless. Yea i’ll probobly get flamed for that but bring it on
In regards to this statement, I am just offering honda examples that Superchargers aren’t worthless (mine and the 480HP civic).
One downside to a supercharger on a front wheel drive car is the instant torque mabe by the supercharger. Torque steer is a biatch (although a fun one at that)
I think this is mostly in regards to roots style SCr’s, which is almost impossible to put in a Gen2 (I consider the brake booster pretty vital). On a centrifugal SC tq steer and traction are practically identical to turbos and the instant boost vs. spool up is just a benefit.
Many SC’s generate too much drag for what they do for a smaller displacement engine. Much like running a huge turbo on a small displacement engine.
in regards to this I just want to again offer evidence that this theory should prove correct with a big enough SC on a 4 popper, the parasitic drag has not really proven much of a problem for the existing SCr’s for Hondas.
a yea, that 480hp civic looks streetable
hey and look at the power! 480hp and how much torque? ohhh 296 hahahaha… i put out more then that on my talon.
Everyone on this gen2 site sure loves your eagle talon, I look forward to more comments on it. The higher torque numbers sure would help if we started drag races tied up to a small tree trunk or want to race with 5 people in the car.
we’re not comparing race prepped cars, we were (i think) just talking street cars.
unfortunetly cent. SC’rs are still relatively new, and this particular kit is not yet widely available. Hence my only example is a race prepped car. Everything the SCr kit itself does is applicable to a streetable car.
I am not here to flame: Respect my opinions I’ll respect yours. Also remember this is a Forum, forums are where people debate ideas/facts. This can be done without getting petty and reducing arguments to insults (this is not an acusation). I’ll post again and address the initial question that started this thread.
A turbo likes low compression, longer geared transmission, etc. How are these things and others similar or different when compared to a SC?
They are exactly the same for turbo and SC. The Roots style may/maynot benefit the same a turbo in regards to gearing.
Does it prefer bigger displacement, shorter or longer stroke?
again the SC and turbo are the same in this regard.
Are any of the DOHC b-series engines better when compared to the others? I always thought nonvtec was better for a turbo and vtec was better for a SC. Is that right? Thanks.
For all out performance it would be best to just lock your engine into VTEC mode (All your valves would always open as much as they can) if you have a non-VTEC engine your in that state already. Leaving VTEC on but lowering it offers a very streetable happy medium. I have all the power I want to drive normally below 4k with my valves only partially opening and I can keep good mileage. The flow on a stock VTEC head is much better than a non-VTEC. After a shop has done head work, both heads will flow awesome (opinions vary on this). Yes there are better engines. B16 B17 B18 b20 are all awesome and high revving, B18a and B18b recieve considerable more stress under high revs than the other b series(opinions vary on how well these handle high revs). There is a B2X prelude motor that is generally considered crap.
The higher torque numbers sure would help if we started drag races tied up to a small tree trunk or want to race with 5 people in the car.
but again we’re talking about street cars (to my knowledge.) torque is a HUGE factor in day to day driveability, thats why I mentioned it.
formz, do you have any dynographs or timeslips to back up any of your claims? and even if you did make the power you claim, you would still get walked on by that civic with “only” 296lb of tq. remember, huge torque #'s are only necessary when the chassis the motor is sitting in is an overweight tub.
my guess is that you have never even seen a dragstrip with your car, otherwise you would be bitching about how your weakass dsm drivetrain keeps breaking center diffs or grenades its tranny.
witchkraft, the 480hp civic is stock chassis with a rollcage running hondata. that car would have no issues running on the street. all it would need is a different set of pulleys to lower boost levels.
and what problems do you see with running vtec with fi? name the 5 fastest hondas & tell me whats under their hoods? sure some may run with the solenoid disabled, but that is because they keep the rockers locked, which essentially means they are running on the vtec lobes the whole time.
dude are you blind? you have to be. because i’ve mentioned what twice now that we’re talking about STREET CARS. how are you on this board if you dont read? do you find it hard?
hey qwkteg… I cant name any of that, it is just from what I have heard about overlap. it was all heresay (sp), I am not making any claims, just tossing in what I have heard
I am not out to do any harm, just add my piece…
Pete
formz, then why do you compare your hypothetical tq with the “racecar” civic? but that is besides the point, isn’t it? my question to you was do you have any timeslips or dynocharts?
the talk about vtec & racecars was directed towards pete, which he just answered. so now where’s your answer?
no, i dont have dyno sleeps. but i can GARUNTEE you more torque then that (at the flywheel, damn awd). And ofcourse you’re going to say im bullshit, but ya know what, doesnt matter, if you saw my mod list, you’d realize thats its not only possible, but very believable.
EDIT: btw… about the breaking drivetrain parts, I’ve never broken one yet. And I’ll give you one name… John Shepard. 9 second slips on a stock tranny you say? Hasn’t broken one you say? My word!