I had major toe out problems when I first got the car. It would go through a used tire in less than 2 weeks. So I spent the 60bux and got an alignment. It has lasted for a little while now, but I am starting to notice wear on the insides of my new front tires, and Im figuring that it is the same problem back again. Most of my stock suspension is worn out and needs to be replaced,
but what part or pieces are worn that is causing this problem?
Inner and outer tie rod ends.
how often do you rotate and balance your tires… and what air pressure do you use them at?
Re: TOe problems
Originally posted by nafreak
I am starting to notice wear on the insides of my new front tires,
Sounds more like a negative camber problem.
Regards,
Oz
Thanks for the replys guys!
I am @ stock height with stock wheels, so I camber wouldnt be my first choice. Sometimes I can hear the tire squealing SLIGHTLY going around a long left bend @ 60mph. IT did this before I got the alignment also, but not as bad.
Inner and outer tie rod ends, huh? If that was to end up being the case, do I replace them as a whole to fix the problem, or do I replace the bushings on them? (I have the ES kit waiting to go in)
I have used tires in the back and new in the front, so I havent rotated them yet. I try to keep the pressure @ 33 F 30 R
I usually check it before I travel to a meet or home, which is a few times a year.
Imma try to get a shot of the tire right now…
Tire…
Camber…
help…?
I am @ stock height with stock wheels, so I camber wouldnt be my first choice. Sometimes I can hear the tire squealing SLIGHTLY going around a long left bend @ 60mph. IT did this before I got the alignment also, but not as bad.
This sounds like toe-in. If the car was toed-out originally and they put it within spec (which is likely toe-in to 0 toe) then you will hear more squealing because toe-out is typically better for handling than 0 toe or toe-in.
Inner and outer tie rod ends, huh? If that was to end up being the case, do I replace them as a whole to fix the problem, or do I replace the bushings on them? (I have the ES kit waiting to go in)
You typically replace them as a whole. I’ve heard of people buying them from Napa as remanufactured units with no problems.
That looks like negative camber wear.
And that looks like negative camber. Do you have the print-out numbers from the alignment? It’s kind of hard to figure out without those numbers. It may just be the angle, but if your steering wheel is straight, it looks toed-in a bit. It is very difficult to tell though, just from pictures.
I could dig out the alignment sheet, but it has been at least 6- 7 months since I have had the alignment. The original problem was toe out I remember.
Camber on the front is adjustable w/o a kit right?
If it does end up being a camber problem, what is worn out or needs to be replaced in order to keep this from happening al over again?
TIA!!
6-7 months can be along time for an alignment depending on road conditions around your area and if you’ve hit a few potholes or curbs.
Sagging or broken springs could cause camber problems.
A bent upper control could also cause camber problems, but most people who hit curbs bend the upper control arm towards positive camber, rather than negative.
Aside from those things it could be something like worn bushings, and if it truly is a toe problem, then tie-rods could be to blame.
There are a lot of variables involved with an alignment problem…which is why you typically don’t know, without looking at alignment numbers. That’s the best I can help you.
Here is the spec sheet from the last alignment. The date on it says 82 and I didnt find the recipt with it, so Im not sure how long ago it really was…
I think I paid 60- 70 for this 4 wheel. I should be able to get a 2 wheel for around 40 right?
i paid 45 for 4 wheel, but they were a crappy shop. ran out of paper for the printout (good thing i remembered most of it) and i forgot i shouldve specified all the settings i wanted
nafreak Toe problems normally cause the tire to “feather”. From the look at your pictures, this doesn’t seem to be the case. Although, Toe-out is suppose to wear the inner tire faster, your alignment sheet says you have Toe-in. So, the feathering and excessive tire wear should be on the outside of the tire. With this in mind, I fully suspect the excessive inner tire wear to be a camber-related problem rather than a toe problem.
Your front alignment chart seems out of whack. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re drifting to the right on a flat level road. You might want to have that rechecked.
As for your rear, Toe should be negative (Toe-In), and not positive (Toe-out) as your sheet indicates. This will cause some instability at high speeds. And if I’m not mistaken rear camber should be -2.0 deg.
Regards,
Oz
My apologies on my previous post. Here is what Helms has to say about stock wheel alignment numbers:
Camber
Front: 0 deg.
Rear: -0.40 deg.
Caster
Front: +1.30 deg.
Toe
Front: 0mm (0in.)
Rear: Toe-In 2mm (0.08in)
Regards,
Oz
whats does feathering look like?
and i thought for performance you want more camber in the front than rear, as well as toe out.
what would be a good subtle street setup with all the suspension goodies but with minimal tire wear? (1.8f/1.5r, agx, s/t sways, bars, falkens, camber kit)
whats does feathering look like?
It looks like a diagonal scuff that goes most of the way across the tire.
and i thought for performance you want more camber in the front than rear, as well as toe out.
Most of the time you are correct. More negative camber in front and toe-out in the front will help turn-in dramatically. They also cause tires to wear very quickly, and cause the cars stability to be very darty.
what would be a good subtle street setup with all the suspension goodies but with minimal tire wear? (1.8f/1.5r, agx, s/t sways, bars, falkens, camber kit)
Typically the way you find out optimal alignment (and suspension) settings is using a pyrometer. After you get the tires up to temperature while out on track or at an autocross, you stick a metal probe deep into the tire cords that will measure the temperature deep within the tire. You do this in several spots across the tire’s width and the goal is to have the tire the same temperature across its width. This would vary from between tracks or courses but this gives you the general idea.
Running toe-out in front, in combination with negative camber will cause tires to wear very, very quickly. Tire pressures have a large effect on the way your car handles also. Everyone’s preferences for what they can bear on the street as comfortable, vs. their wishes off public roads differs greatly. It’ll take some experimentation but if you’d like to see what I want for my set-up here goes:
-Cornerweighted Ground-Control Coilovers w/ Eibach ERS (400F/600R)
-Koni Yellow Adjustable Shocks
-Stock front sway bar
-22mm Progress Rear Sway bar
-205/50/15 Falken Azenis
-15"x7" Kosei K1’s or 15"x7" O.Z. Superleggeras
-Spoon Upper Front and Upper Rear Strut Bar
-Front toe-out (1/8" total - 1/16" per side)
-Front camber around 2 degrees negative
-Rear camber around 1 degree negative
-Tire pressures F/R? (I won’t know till I take it out to auto-x’s)
You’ll just have to read a lot and then ask questions for whatever the reading does not answer. I suggest reading up at http://www.turnfast.com