is it worth it to install an upgraded underdrive pulley? Can I just put it on and not have to worry about any type of balancing or whatever? Give me some info, especially from those who have already done it, any problems?!?
Thanks
No it’s not worth it, it barely adds any power. Easier just to take off the PS belt. If the install weren’t such a bitch they might be worth it though.
Hey man I had the pulley put on.I don’t have the tools to do it myself.It took my mechanic the better part of 4 hours(the hole in the pulley for the bolt was just a little too small…he filed it down by hand…no extra charge…nice guy)The car deffinitely revs faster.I was hitting rev limiter much quicker.I had to adjust my shift timing…kept hitting the rev limiter unexpectedly:clap: As for the power you will notice a difference.I haven’t done anything major to the engine yet so the difference is quite noticeable.You will notice a loss of AC performance at idle but other then that no problemo.Everything functions fine.I love it.
I also got the kit for $160 cdn including shiping/handling.So the deal was even better.
Ha3ap
it is not the difference in size that makes such a big difference. It is the difference in weight that matters. The factory pulley weighs like 8-10lbs where the underdrive pulley weighs like 1lb. That is just a myth about trashed main bearings due to a underdrive pulley. No one here has ever had any trouble due to a pulley, nor did I on my Mazda MX6. I installed a unorthodox pulley at 60k and when I sold the car at 125k miles it was still running great and I am harsh on my cars. I maintain them well with fully synthetic lubes and such but I always make it a point to drive like I am being chased. I guess you could call it practicing just in case… Back to the pulley, I would be a little more skeptical about putting a pulley on a car equipped with a harmonic balancer such as a 300ZX but that is just me. Those pullies are great and 5-10 WHp for under $200 is about the cheapest mod you can get to affect the entire power band besides an ebay intake. I have purchased one for my Integra but I am in search of someone to loosen my crank pulley bolt. I broke a chain wrench on it already and I am ready to just pay someone $20 to break the bolt loose. Besides, it gives me a reason to replace the much needed accessory belts. If you don’t believe me, then don’t buy the pulley. Makes no difference to me.
well, I hate to admit, but I think I was wrong. I was reading this article on the Prelude board and I think it clearly spells trouble with the underdrive crank pulley. Here is the article to read. make sure you read the entire article.
My friend has an H22A turbo powered Civic drag car. He busted three oil pumps before he found out the cause was the underdrive pulley. Put the stock balancer back on and had the same oil pump since.
what I can understand from the reasoning behind it after reading the Prelude article and other articles since is beacause the stock pulley is so heavy that when ever the AC engages, the engine hardly feels the jolt but with a 1lb pulley there is not a much rotating mass to absorb the jolt so it is felt harder through the crankshaft therefore affecting bearing wear and oil pump wear. Both pullies, stock and underdrive, are balanced so I don’t think it is a balancing issue, but the fact that the heavy stock pulley has a lot more momentum to absorb the jolt from the AC. If your car is not equipped with AC I wouldn’t think it would have any negative affects from an underdrive pulley. Unfortunately here in GA it is hot as hell so I will keep my stock pulley until it cools off, but then I will install my underdrive pulley and see for myself how it is. If I have any engine problems I will just buy a B16A. That is on my todo list anyways. Along with a lightened flywheel and new clutch.
the aftermarket pullies aren’t harmonically balanced from what I here which is one of the major difficulties with it.
Originally posted by Shaun Ladd
it is not the difference in size that makes such a big difference. It is the difference in weight that matters. The factory pulley weighs like 8-10lbs where the underdrive pulley weighs like 1lb.
To me this doesn’t fly. I know you already retracted your opinion on a follow-up post, but I’d like to further add that in regards to the weight issue - if you want to reduce rotating mass, the weight that really matters and is greater affected is that which is farthest away from the pivoting point. So if you want to reduce weight and more importantly rotating mass, get a lighter flywheel. I would put an OEM CTR crank pulley on before my motor would ever see a non-balanced aftermarket pulley, something I will never be a proponent of.
In regards to using the 1st gen B16 crank pulley that Daniel mentioned: I feel that the reduction in alternator drive may hamper the alternator’s ability to give it’s fullest output and will affect the longevity of the alternator if used while under a continuous heavier load. I say ‘may’ because it’s not down by a lot. But for the same reasons, this is why I don’t believe in aftermarket alternator pulleys even though harmonic balancing doesn’t come into play here. There are those that will disagree with me, but I remain firm that the stock rotation spec should be maintained on the alternator given the motor you are running.
With the alternator, it’s an issue of output and longevity, but with the A/C, it’s just an issue of output when using the stated 1st gen B16 crank because you can’t damage the compressor by rotating it less. The only thing that will happen there is that you may get a reduction in A/C output given the same fan switch selection with the LS pulley.
The one pulley I’d really like to be affected that is not is the power steering pulley. I do like aftermarket power steering pulleys and believe they are a nice balance between the power assisted steering for low-speed maneuvering and the greater stability of non-power steering setups at full-go.
I welcome any constructive criticisms to my arguments.
Originally posted by Ive
[B]To me this doesn’t fly. I know you already retracted your opinion on a follow-up post, but I’d like to further add that in regards to the weight issue - if you want to reduce rotating mass, the weight that really matters and is greater affected is that which is farthest away from the pivoting point. So if you want to reduce weight and more importantly rotating mass, get a lighter flywheel. I would put an OEM CTR crank pulley on before my motor would ever see a non-balanced aftermarket pulley, something I will never be a proponent of.
In regards to using the 1st gen B16 crank pulley that Daniel mentioned: I feel that the reduction in alternator drive may hamper the alternator’s ability to give it’s fullest output and will affect the longevity of the alternator if used while under a continuous heavier load. I say ‘may’ because it’s not down by a lot. But for the same reasons, this is why I don’t believe in aftermarket alternator pulleys even though harmonic balancing doesn’t come into play here. There are those that will disagree with me, but I remain firm that the stock rotation spec should be maintained on the alternator given the motor you are running.
With the alternator, it’s an issue of output and longevity, but with the A/C, it’s just an issue of output when using the stated 1st gen B16 crank because you can’t damage the compressor by rotating it less. The only thing that will happen there is that you may get a reduction in A/C output given the same fan switch selection with the LS pulley.
The one pulley I’d really like to be affected that is not is the power steering pulley. I do like aftermarket power steering pulleys and believe they are a nice balance between the power assisted steering for low-speed maneuvering and the greater stability of non-power steering setups at full-go.
I welcome any constructive criticisms to my arguments. [/B]
:werd:
well now
i appreciate the responses…well installation is no problem, all those that were using massive amounts of torque to break the bolt were doing it all wrong. There is a piece that connects to the bolt the hold the pulley still and disengages the bolt with a air gun, i am talking a powerful air gun, bigger than anything you can buy at sears. This will make the installation easy. I have already popped the PS belt off, i loved that. Since i do live in FL i need the A/C, but i will prob do it anyway. If i start having problems i will replace with the stock pulley
also dont forget, i think all the belt/pulley components are reverse thread!!! Might be why there r some problems with removal.
Originally posted by lsteg93
also dont forget, i think all the belt/pulley components are reverse thread!!! Might be why there r some problems with removal.
i thought you were asking questions about the underdrive pulley?
it’s not an issue of if it’s easy to remove or not. we were kindly pointing out the many problems you can run into using an non-harmonically balanced (which those aftermarket pullies aren’t) underdrive pulleys as opposed to the balanced stock OEM pulleys.
yeah i was asking for info, but i was trying to help others out on installation.
you are going to get the same affect from getting a lighter flywheel that you are by getting a lightened underdrive pulley cause they are driven off the same crankshaft. Either way you are dropping rotating mass from the engine. Also, I don’t think rotating the alternator 20% slower will affect its longevity since it sees all RPM areas as you rev any ways. That is like saying a slow, easy going driver will not charge his battery as well as an aggressive red-lining fool will. The only place the alternator will be hurt is if you are running a 2000 watt stereo system on a less than perfect battery at idle. Other than that it will not matter. The alternator puts off 14.4V at idle and considering your idle can range from 550-800 rpms that is over a 20% difference from the low to high range anyways. opinions anyone…
Originally posted by Shaun Ladd
you are going to get the same affect from getting a lighter flywheel that you are by getting a lightened underdrive pulley cause they are driven off the same crankshaft. Either way you are dropping rotating mass from the engine. Also, I don’t think rotating the alternator 20% slower will affect its longevity since it sees all RPM areas as you rev any ways. That is like saying a slow, easy going driver will not charge his battery as well as an aggressive red-lining fool will. The only place the alternator will be hurt is if you are running a 2000 watt stereo system on a less than perfect battery at idle. Other than that it will not matter. The alternator puts off 14.4V at idle and considering your idle can range from 550-800 rpms that is over a 20% difference from the low to high range anyways. opinions anyone…
actually there have been several members who when using the AEM aftermarket pulleys have had problems with losing power to their alternator and thus constant stalling which was fixed as soon as the pullies were put back to stock
hey guys, just poking my head in…
the only pulley i have beef with when running a non-race prepared unbalanced motor is the crank pulley…
read this guys…
actually there have been several members who when using the AEM aftermarket pulleys have had problems with losing power to their alternator and thus constant stalling which was fixed as soon as the pullies were put back to stock
That is not possibly true cause your car can run off your battery if your alternator dies for approximately 30-90 minutes depending on what electronics you are running and what type of battery you have. Your battery only puts off 12 volts when fully charged and the alternator even if spinning 20% slower will still put off more than 12 volts, so if you are just driving without the stereo pounding your car should not stall from the UD pulley. UNLESS your engine, chasis, and battery are not grounded very good, and from what I have seen about these ground straps I would blame them first thing.
Originally posted by Shaun Ladd
you are going to get the same affect from getting a lighter flywheel that you are by getting a lightened underdrive pulley cause they are driven off the same crankshaft. Either way you are dropping rotating mass from the engine.
Yes, but you have to think physics here: Why is it that figure skaters spin faster when their arms are tucked close to them versus when they are spread out? The same reason why an 18 lbs. flywheel will put more weight on the crank than an 18 lbs. crank pulley. Because like I tried to explain earlier, the farther the mass is away from the pivot point of a rotating object, even if the mass is balanced, it will still have more inertia given the same weight and mass of an object of smaller diameter - thus requiring more energy to change its speed.
you also said:
Also, I don’t think rotating the alternator 20% slower will affect its longevity since it sees all RPM areas as you rev any ways. That is like saying a slow, easy going driver will not charge his battery as well as an aggressive red-lining fool will. The only place the alternator will be hurt is if you are running a 2000 watt stereo system on a less than perfect battery at idle. Other than that it will not matter. The alternator puts off 14.4V at idle and considering your idle can range from 550-800 rpms that is over a 20% difference from the low to high range anyways. opinions anyone…
Granted, however you are reducing the speed of rotation at all RPMs with the alternator pulley and thus will still make it work harder than an alternator that is running with it’s intended revolution. Yes, it is a regulated device - designed to sustain a fixed voltage (hence why we’ve changed to using “alternators” in the last 35+ years as opposed to “generators” of earlier vehicles), but with everything in life, you have to compromise somewhere.
Since you can’t get something for nothing, guess what happens when your fixed voltage alternator is getting less rotational speed to drive the same running electrical components? Current goes down. And when current demands are not met by the alternator, you get premature wear of the alternator. It doesn’t take a 2000 watt stereo system to notice the diminishing effects of a underdriven alternator pulley - try it with just your lights on alone at idle and I will guarantee you will notice a difference. Sure it will change when you rev up the motor, but where you were once at the safe limit at idle, you are now in a damaging state. Why risk the mere chance of damage when power and weight savings could be made elsewhere and at a better value?