Originally posted by DB2-R81
No, it is not a regional thing, it’s a misuse of the term slut by peole who don’t know any better
:whoa: :whoa:
I dont think any of you know what you are talking about. actually, I just got tired of looking at this post. There are no pics. Lets all just call them spring counteracters. There.
Originally posted by DB2-R81
May I suggest people look in their Helm’s service manual you won’t see them called struts, shocks, or doohickie’s. Only the word damper is used to describe the suspension component, which dampens spring oscolations and makes up part of a G2 Integra’s suspension. No, it is not a regional thing, it’s a misuse of the term strut, by peole who don’t know any better, or think they know to much.
All shock absorbers control spring ocillations. In fact, that’s the definition of a shock absorber. A damper is just another word for a strut or a shock. Next are you going to try to tell me that Integras don’t even have suspension, they have “footwork”??
If Hondas and Acuras don’t use double wishbone suspension (DC5 and new civic chassis excluded), then why on Earth has Acura been bragging about all their cars having independent double wishbone suspension since 1995??? And don’t even try to tell me they don’t because I used to be an Acura salesman, so I know all their sales gimmicks.
While, yes, the strut found on a Honda isn’t exactly a strut in traditional terms of the word. It is still a strut by definition because it contains the spring assembly.
And don’t try and tell what books I should go read. I spend six hours a day attending class at the most reputable Automotive technology school in the country. I also happen to carry a 4.0. Not that I’m trying to brag by any means, however, I do feel that it should give you a rather good idea that maybe I know what I’m talking about. I suggest you go talk to an Acura Service writer and ask them a little about Integra suspension. They will tell you the exact same thing I have. Hell, you can call American Honda, ask to speak to their Engineering staff, and they will tell you the same thing as well. Since you don’t seem to believe me.
And I will say it again, just because a car doesn’t have a MacPherson strut suspension design, doesn’t neccesarily mean, that it doesn’t use a strut. Does anyone here know what a Combined strut/SLA suspension system is??? If not, then you have no place arguing in this conversation.
Anyways, I’m done arguing with you DB2. You obviously don’t know what you are talking about, and refuse to listen. If you want to continue this conversation feel free to IM me on AIM DonnellM is my UN. Or you can Email me at secretagent007_98@yahoo.com
If you guys really want pics I can get some up by friday, I’ll have a chance to pull my G/F’s civic up on the lift then, and take a few pics for you all. I can’t do my integra, b/c it is currently in the shop getting some bodywork done.
Anyways, later.
Secret
Hey SecretAgent,
I’m going to tell you a little secret, you have no idea what your writing about! Look in your dealer service manual, name any page in the G2 Integra Helms manual describing a suspension component with the term “strut” and I will eat your manual page by page. Your wrong and your 4.0 grade average is useless if you can’t apply and utilize what you should know. There are no struts on G2 Integra! A strut is not defined by the location of the spring but by its attachment to the upright or knuckle.
Also there are no lower wishbones on a Honda/Acura front suspension. A wishbone is defined by two pivot points at the inner attachment to the chassis. Honda/Acura’s have one, and this is why it is called a lower control arm, not a wishbone. The upper control arm can be called a wishbone because it is shaped like a “Y” and has two inner attachment points.
Shocks and Struts are both dampers/absorbers, correct?
The difference is what DB2-R81 stated.
Strut- Is attatched to the knuckle and is used on current Civics/RSX. By changing a strut’s position camber can be adjusted.
Shock- Attatched to an arm and the chassis. Moving a shock around will not affect camber.
Umm…yeah, no. Go look in a real Automotive technology book about suspension and look at a suspension design called Combined strut/SLA. You will find that it describes the suspension on the integra exactly. Also, while you are looking that up, look up strut also. And since you don’t seem to believe that Acura advertises their cars as having doulble wishbone suspension, here’s a few links for ya:
http://www.acura.com/model_nsx/specs_results.asp
http://www.acura.com/model_RL/rl_spec_results.asp
http://www.acura.com/model_TL/tl_spec_results.asp
http://www.acura.com/model_CL/cl_spec_results.asp
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=42
You show me a definition other than the one I have given for a strut, somewhere where I can read it with my own eyes, and I will shut up about this, and send you 5 dollars. (huge amount i know 
)
Ok, if you say a strut is definied by being attached to the knuckle, then please tell me why they call it a combined strut/sla suspension??? Because on a CS/SLA the strut is attached to the chassis on one end, and the LCA on the other end. Now, if you ask me, that sure doesn’t sound like it’s attached to the knuckle. And yet, it is still called a combined STRUT/SLA suspension. Gee, now why would they call it that, if it wasn’t a STRUT???
And don’t try to tell me that the integra uses dampers not struts or shocks again. That’s like saying my integra isn’t a GS or a GSR, it’s an Integra. Look at like like a tree. The stump would be the term damper, and on the branches would be strut and shock. Because they are both dampers. They are just two different types of dampers.
Later.
Secret
Originally posted by SecretAgent
[B]
http://www.acura.com/model_nsx/specs_results.asp
http://www.acura.com/model_RL/rl_spec_results.asp
http://www.acura.com/model_TL/tl_spec_results.asp
http://www.acura.com/model_CL/cl_spec_results.asp
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=42
[/B]
i think you guys are debating over stupid things. if it’s “combined” then technically it’s not a “strut” in the exact sense… but you did state that you believed it be a combined strut/SCA… so you are both not reading eachother’s posts closely… moreover, those ads you just posted are the ones that Marc said HAD struts if you read back… and that’s why people were dissapointed.
This thread ROCKS 
Originally posted by 92GS-R
[B]
i think you guys are debating over stupid things. if it’s “combined” then technically it’s not a “strut” in the exact sense… but you did state that you believed it be a combined strut/SCA… so you are both not reading eachother’s posts closely… moreover, those ads you just posted are the ones that Marc said HAD struts if you read back… and that’s why people were dissapointed. [/B]
The reason why I posted those links is not on the issue of shocks or struts, but be cause Marc refuses to believe that Integras, and all other Acuras up to 2001 (MDX exluded) used a Double wishbone suspension.
The reason why it is combined strut/sla susp. is because normally they are two separate things. i.e. a strut suspension, and an SLA suspension. Not because the strut is combined. Combine a Strut and Short Long Arm suspension together, and you get Combined strut/SLA. Follow me? Sorry I’m not explaining this well.
Later.
Secret
you guys know a lot more than me! hehe
but the helms does refer to them as dampers 
<img src=“http://students.washington.edu/locdaddy/damper.jpg”>
Hey Secretagent,
I will say it again show me, or name any page in the G2 Integra factory service manual that refers to a suspension component called a strut and I will pay for and eat it! Like wise name any page in the manual that refers to a lower wishbone, hehe!
Listen, I have been designing, building and racing cars and motorcycles long before you were conceived and I know what I’m talking about.
You know what the sad thing is, it is likely bone heads like you, which the general public will take their cars too for repaired. Not only do you not understand or comprehend the principles of most suspension types, you misrepresent the literature and documented public facts to accomplish your ill-conceived wishes.
Your wrong! And if you can’t understand this and the definition of a strut, or you are to stubborn to admit your wrong. That’s your problem not mine.
Did you not visit those links??? Even Acura says it’s a doulbe wishbone suspension design!!! Are you really that ignorant??? The reason honda calls it a double wishbone setup is because the LCA in combination with the Radius Arm (strut rod, control arm, whatever you want to call it) creates a second chassis mounting point for the LCA. Using your philosophy then, since Honda says it it must be true. Therefore, Honda and Acura use DOUBLE WISHBONE SUSPENSION!!!
And you still didn’t explain why a combined strut/sla suspension is called that if it uses shocks??? Quit dodging the question.
The race cars you build must not be very fast, considering you have no idea about suspension.
I don’t have a copy on hand of the Helms manual for the G2, but tonight I will look on Alldata and find it there. Feel like eating a CR-ROM???
How can you possibly say that Honda’s don’t use wishbone susp. Even though they state it flat out on their webpage (and happen to be quite proud about it, i may add) and then turn around and tell me to find the word strut in the Helms manual. How do you know that the people that wrote the Helms manual didn’t misname the suspension components?? Since according to you they got the whole double-wishbone thing wrong???
Originally posted by SecretAgent
[B]Did you not visit those links??? Even Acura says it’s a doulbe wishbone suspension design!!! Are you really that ignorant??? The reason honda calls it a double wishbone setup is because the LCA in combination with the Radius Arm (strut rod, control arm, whatever you want to call it) creates a second chassis mounting point for the LCA. Using your philosophy then, since Honda says it it must be true. Therefore, Honda and Acura use DOUBLE WISHBONE SUSPENSION!!!
And you still didn’t explain why a combined strut/sla suspension is called that if it uses shocks??? Quit dodging the question.
The race cars you build must not be very fast, considering you have no idea about suspension.
I don’t have a copy on hand of the Helms manual for the G2, but tonight I will look on Alldata and find it there. Feel like eating a CR-ROM???
How can you possibly say that Honda’s don’t use wishbone susp. Even though they state it flat out on their webpage (and happen to be quite proud about it, i may add) and then turn around and tell me to find the word strut in the Helms manual. How do you know that the people that wrote the Helms manual didn’t misname the suspension components?? Since according to you they got the whole double-wishbone thing wrong??? [/B]
sorry to butt in, but i’ve been following this thread… and Marc (DB2) SAID that our integras DON’T use struts… and the newer hondas/acuras do. those links that you posted ARE of the newer model hondas/acuras… which he explicitly said DID use struts.
I posted the Helms picture which clearly calls them dampers. (which is the factory service manual). the LCA/Strut i dont’ know… but i’m sure both of you guys are right in some way. both of you obviously do know alot… but this is childish.
and BTW: I think DB2-R81 must know something about suspension since he’s won his division at AutoX 2 years in a row 
I think DB2-R81 must know something about suspension since he’s won his division at AutoX 2 years in a row
No offence at all here, but this does not make him more knowledgable about suspension (doesnt hurt either). It makes him a skilled driver. Ive won my class the last two years as well and most of the stuff I know about suspension I got from Marc correcting me on these posts. Not doubting Marcs knowledge, or SecretAgents for that matter, cause in between these posts I am learing stuff. I know I still have a lot to learn bout suspension. Im just now starting to understand the basic concepts.
Originally posted by shenrie
[B]
No offence at all here, but this does not make him more knowledgable about suspension (doesnt hurt either). It makes him a skilled driver. Ive won my class the last two years as well and most of the stuff I know about suspension I got from Marc correcting me on these posts. Not doubting Marcs knowledge, or SecretAgents for that matter, cause in between these posts I am learing stuff. I know I still have a lot to learn bout suspension. Im just now starting to understand the basic concepts. [/B]
yeah good point :D… it was the comment "The race cars you build must not be very fast, considering you have no idea about suspension. " that i found funny.
Strut: From a Subaru. Which uses a strut type suspension.
Shock: From an Integra which has a shock type suspension.
Notice how the lower mounts are different.
“Double Wishbone” is a common term for the suspension found on an Integra. This is the term I’m acoustomed to using. It is not a “true” double wishbone like a Miata where the arms are actually shaped like wishbones. I don’t see any fundamental difference between the two though except shape. SCC also calls it “double wishbone”.
from here http://autorepair.about.com/library/glossary/bldef-493.htm?iam=howstuffworks_SKD&terms=Strut
“Definition: A special kind of oversized shock absorber that’s used as part of the vehicle’s suspension. When used on the front suspension, it replaces the upper control arm and ball joint. Some struts have coil springs around them while others do not. Some struts have replaceable internal components that can be repaired by dropping in a new cartridge.”
and diagrams froma 97 Type R
Srut: A structural element used to brace or strengthen a framework by resisting longitudinal compression. -dictionary.com
That could be anything :roll:
Hell, your dick is a strut when a fat chick sits on it by that definition.
Originally posted by SlprTeg
[B]
That could be anything :roll:
Hell, your dick is a strut when a fat chick sits on it by that definition. [/B]
You screw fat chicks??
hehehehe
Later,
BR
Originally posted by B R
[B]You screw fat chicks??
hehehehe
Later,
BR [/B]
:lol: hahahaha