About to upgrade the brakes...

Hey guys. I’m going to replace the pads, rotors and lines on the GSR and I figured that I’d ask for a few suggestions regarding mainly pads and lines. I’m pretty set on Brembo OE rotors.

Anyway, I’m pretty much torn between the Hawk HPS and HP+ pad the difference being that the HP+ has a stronger bite but is more of a track oriented pad (from what I’ve heard from users). The HPS is supposedly a pretty dman good pad as well. Basically, I need opinions from HP+ users. Are these pads too aggressive for the street? They will be daily driven and will see no more than 5 autocrosses a year.

I’ve been gathering some information from Honda-tech.com because there is a lot of knowledgable people over there, especially in the competition and tech forums. G2IC member mojoGSR is doing a nearly identical setup as me. Here are some good posts for anyone else who’s interested.

-Asking about which pads/rotors for STS
-Mostly about rotors
-Mostly a rehash of brake fluids
-This is probably the most relevant. I posted this on advice for brake fluids and which DOT approved SS lines to use.
-Great info on brake fluid. (Read only, but lots of educated information)

I’m still not sure which lines I should use. I’m leaning toward a Teflon coated line that will prevent rupture of the SS, but that may be unneccessary, I hate wasting money.

So what do you guys think? The rotors are set. Don’t you dare try to tell me to get slotted/drilled rotors :D. I’m leaning towards HP+ pads because of the increased bite. Another point worth mentioning is that Hawk does not make rear pads for our cars apparently. So I’ll probably throw some AEM or Axxis pads on the rears.

Well, thanks for any comments you have to offer. I can’t afford to do any caliper work right now so only pad/rotor/line related suggestions please.


Hey GSpeedR, I browsed through the links you gave and came to different conclusions.

On rotors, I noticed that a lot of people like to recommend the Brembo blanks because they’re cheap and they work but are your stock rotors warped or worn out? I’m of the opinion that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it so I wonder if a lot of people jump the gun and buy the rotors unecessarily.

On pads, It seems like the HPS and HP+ pads are good from what I’ve read and I have no experience with them. However, I’ve also read that the OEM Nissin pads are best for street driving. This is probably because of the temperature range in which the pads work best. The HP+ pads might have better bite but at a higher temp range. I could be wrong though since I haven’t done any research on them. What I’m wondering is if your brakes really see that much more use in your area. In SFR we only get 3 runs and rarely get a couple fun runs. The runs are even spaced a decent amount of time apart since STS, STR, and the corresponding Novice class all run together and are a HUGE run group. So unless a car is codriven, the brakes on our cars don’t seem to be at a risk of overheating there. A couple hours away from me in Sacramento though, participants get 4 regular runs and and as many as 5 or 6 fun runs! I guess how much you’ll actually need pricey pads is something to keep in mind since you already know that you’ll autocross the car no more than 5 times this coming year. In my case, my car was driven daily to work and school so pads that are easy on rotors with good cold temp characteristics are important to me.

On lines, I believe that the Teflon is actually inside the braid and is what the line is made of. The Neuspeed lines have a covering over them that covers the braid but again, I have no experience with them. I was thinking that if you get the Goodridge lines, one could always use heat shrink tubing or lots of electrical tape to keep the grit out of the braid.

I might not have been much of a help but those are just a few things to think about. I guess I’m just curious as well. Oh, and if MojoGSR hasn’t done so yet, he can easily make his own magnetic numbers for less than $10 a sheet at Micheals or another local art store. Sometimes it’s nicer than tape and it’s better for the car’s paint.

agent87: a good point about the rotors. However, my rotors are rusted all the way around. They are pretty much worn out and should be replaced no matter what. The Brembo OE blanks seem like the best dollar/performance value. If anyone would like to get some, go here. They have the best prices and very good service.

Anyway, my brakes are just simply not adequate for street or autocross driving. I find it very difficult to lock up the wheels at any speed, and the feel is just terrible. I had the brake master cylinder replaced about a year due to a leak, but I noticed no improvement. So something has to change.

Regarding the pads, it’s the temperature range that I am concerned with. During an autocross, you don’t really have any time/room to heat up the pads, until you’re halfway through the course, and then they cool down in between each run. However, if the HP+ pads can get up to the optimal heat range after 1 or two 2 turns then the increased deceleration grip for the rest of the course outweighs braking penalty on the first two turns. It’s how many turns and whatnot that worries me. On the street, I am not sure, though. Someone brought up a good point questioning whether brake pads cool down when you are driving on the highway. That may be another as well.

I guess what I need to hear is: How much better is the grip of the HP+ compared to the HPS? If it really isn’t that great then the HPS are the way to go. They should have at least decent cold temperature characteristics and very good hot temp characteristics (until it gets really hot, which is not a concern of mine).

About the Neupseed lines, the outer covering of the SS is Teflon, and I believe that the inside is as well. I remember someone else suggested shrink wrapping the lines, so maybe that is a valid reason to get the cheaper Goodridge lines. I’m not sure. I know that mojoGSR is going to get Goodridge lines (and HP+ pads) so maybe he knows something that I don’t.

Well, I appreciate the long andd informative post, hopefully there will be some more following :wink:

I have Hawk HPS fronts, EBC green stuff rears, and Brembo OEM rotors(stock lines). I have been able to drive the car a little since I got back on Christmas break, but the rears are still in their break in period so the entire system doesn’t have as much grip as I would like yet. I could tell an improvement over stock, although I am still not pulling the G’s or stability under braking I would like. My dad’s SAAB 9-3 is still much better stock(although it has very good brakes stock). I also don’t have the pedal feel or response that I would like but I am hoping to fix that with SS brake lines. I am looking to go with Goodridge. I didn’t really want to bother with the heat range for the HP+ for city driving, although the car definitely needs more stopping power since it is in Germany with the autobahns and such. I will hopefully get it to the states in less than a year. I wish I could give you more advice but I can only tell you my setup and what I think. Hopefully I can get a feel for the car’s pad’s before I leave and after they are past their break in period. The only problem is that my GS-R isn’t getting driven much because of all the snow we are getting here in Germany. It isn’t a problem for my dad’s SAAB with Michelin arctic alpines, but for my car with year and a half old all season tires that have gone through several laps around the 14 mile, 176 turn Nuerburgring, a driving school, the autobahn, and plently of mountain roads, I have barely any grip in the snow.

Well, dammit…I have a new pad that must be considered.

Axxis Ultimate (they also don’t make a rear pad for G2s)

I just spoke with someone from Carbotech Engineering (http://www.carbotecheng.com), reagrding the HPS and HP+ pads. Well, instead of answering the question, he suggested the Axxis Ultimate pads. I’ve never even heard of them. I originally thought that this was a marketing ploy to get me to buy more expensive pads, but I think that they are the same price or even cheaper. Does anyone know anything about these?

Here’s a copy of the e-mail:

For street/auto-x driving, I highly recommend the Axxis Ultimate pad, which has very good cold stopping power, and broad temperature range, coupled with excellent braking torque. The cost is $58.35 front…the rear is not available in your application. For street/auto-x, I recommend sticking with OEM rears…if you require more rear brake, then we can make you a custom set of rear pads in our 912 material for $79.
Please let me know how I can be of further assistance to you.

With Best Regards,

Andie Lin

andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering

tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

I have no idea how these compare to HPS or HP+ pads. What do you guys think?

I think that this is a somewhat informative topic, and I won’t let it just get flooded of the site. :mad:

**** you guys… :mad: :evil: :smiley:


I remember I posted that brembo blanks are better than cross drilled/slotted but I got flamed on at that time . :mad:

Ray: The tides of information have finally started to turn. I was also told the that slotted were better by many people, but I listened to the racers (real racers). Eventually, everyone started to change as well.

I think that I am going to try the Axxis Ultimates. Basically, I will need cold-temp stopping power. I have already ordered the Brembo OE rotors from Steve Colletti at Colletti Motorsports. They should arrive in 1 buisness day (not bad!).

I’ll give a full review as to how they feel, perform, etc. I’ve also decided on Goodridge SS lines. I was strongly considering the wrapped SS lines (Neuspeed), but the possibility of damage is rare and the lines have a lifetime warranty as well. So as long as I don’t lose all brake pressure (god forbid) I should be alright.

So I’m going with the Axxis Ultimate pads up front and AEM/Nissin pads in the rear. I’ll let you all know how the install goes. It’s pretty tricky from what I’ve heard.

Originally posted by GSpeedR

I’ll let you all know how the install goes. It’s pretty tricky from what I’ve heard.

What is the tricky part? Do you mean actually changing out the rotors, or pads, or doing the lines. The only problem that I would see would be doing the lines. I ask, because I have two warped rotors, and I will be replacing them soon enough (though not sure which rotors I will be using). I am in the process of gathering up info on replacing the rotors. Thanks


Originally posted by B17A

What is the tricky part? Do you mean actually changing out the rotors, or pads, or doing the lines. The only problem that I would see would be doing the lines. I ask, because I have two warped rotors, and I will be replacing them soon enough (though not sure which rotors I will be using). I am in the process of gathering up info on replacing the rotors. Thanks

jordan [/B]

Rotors are easy to instal, as long as your car doesn’t have rust problems. I don’t know about lines, but I’m curious, because I may install some shortly.

According to those who have installed them, the lines will be a bit difficult. There are a few bolts that will refuse to come off, and rusting may complicate the pads and rotor install.

From what I’ve heard, once you bleed the master cylinder dry, it is very difficult to get all the air out, because you can’t use any fluid to help push it out.

MojoGSR suggested plugging up the parts of the brake lines not being replaced, to keep fluid in the system, installing the lines, and then trying to bleed the system. He’s bled his brakes before (which I haven’t), but he had problems with his ABS light.

It’ll be hard for me because I’ve never done any brak ework before.

Me and one friend did all my brake work at once in about 2-3 hours. That was rotors, pads, and SS lines in all four corners. It was really not that big of a deal. Personally I wouldnt worry about the loss of fluid seeing as how you should upgrade to a DOT 4 anyway, if not then plug it up. Personally I had my system flushed at Les Schwabb and installed the Motul DOT 4 fluid just to top off the brake upgrade. I think the hardest part was the screws that hold the rotors on. Its a good idea to have a impact driver, cause we beat the hell outta the screws that were in there.

Also I noticed that Im getting uneven wear on the passenger front. I think Im in need of a caliper rebuild, but Ive never done this. Might check for that as well. Just a headsup. Let us know how the install went, and good luck with it.