I thought that having extra toe out in the rear was better for handling but I have read otherwise from some people. Apparently 1/8" toe out in front is a common setup. I need to have my car alighned soon, and I might ask to have some toe changes. Does toe affect camber? Anyone want to share their alighnment secrets?
Wish I had some for you. Toe wears tires faster than anything, so when I did my alignment for racing last season, all I did was about 2 degrees of negative camber in the front and just over 1.5 negative in the back. It worked killer, really cut down on the wear of the outer edge, BUT it was hell on the inside of the tires for the street.
Im looking for the magical numbers too so it will handle killer and not ruin tires in one season. Anyone else???
Thats usefull info, but I cant figure out what settings I need from that. If someone could tell me (for example) that 1.7 degrees of negative camber in front with 0.35 toe out would have the least amount of abnormal wear and still track good for autox, I would be forever indebt. I know this is hard info to find cause its usually a trial and error thing. Im just not going to trial and error with 18" tires again.
Originally posted by shenrie
Thats usefull info, but I cant figure out what settings I need from that. If someone could tell me (for example) that 1.7 degrees of negative camber in front with 0.35 toe out would have the least amount of abnormal wear and still track good for autox, I would be forever indebt. I know this is hard info to find cause its usually a trial and error thing. Im just not going to trial and error with 18" tires again.
Yea, I figured you guys wanted some hard numbers. I wasn’t sure if MrFrost was sure of what he was talking about, or wanted someone to confirm the use of toe changes. Anyway, glad that helped, and perhaps DB2-R81 has something to say with his experiences. Have you guys emailed Marc? That may be quicker than waiting on here.
Jordan
I tried mailing Marc a while back but never got any responce. He might of changed his addy since he last gave it to me though. I never know with my pos computer at home:(
Yea my wording was poor.
And I am looking for numbers. That site has confused my terms, “Tracking” is camber, and “Camber” is toe? Basically what I’m looking for is a nice toe number front or rear that is streetable and trackworthy. I think that toe out in front makes better turn in and toe out in the rear should create more oversteer.
looks to me like the website has confused the first two images… anyone?
Hey pxpx,
You are correct, they are positioned next to the wrong heading but are labled correctly.
There is no magic bullet; it is not as simple as one setting fits all. Dependent on many factors type of tires, ride height, wheel rates, track surface, ambient temperature, anti sway bar settings, damper settings, corner weights, roll coupling ratio, type of course; loose with lots of straight, tight turns, direction of majority of turns, driver preference, tire size, wheel size…
General guide lines on DOT competition tires Kumho V700, Hoosier radials, Yoko 032, Toyo RA1’s
1.75 to 3.5 degrees negative camber front
1.5 to 2.0 degrees negative camber rear
1/16 to 1/8" toe out front
0.0 to 1/8" toe out rear
2.0 to 6.0 degrees positive caster
You need to learn too read tire temps, wear patterns, first run feedback and what appropriate changes to make too get the most out of your tires and suspension for the conditions.
My general alignment setting for a first run on 205 X 50 X 15” Kumho V700, grippy concrete, 70 degree F, 38 psi front, 39 psi rear, 450lbs front, 500lbs rear…
2.75 degrees negative camber front
1.75 degrees negative camber rear
1/16" toe out front
0.0 toe out rear
2.5 degrees positive caster
DB2-R81:
Do you still have the Ground Control sleeves for sale? If you do, I’ll take them, thanks. Tried to email you a couple of times, but please email me at tlmai@yahoo.com
Interesting… I just want email updates to this subject… Good info 
Later,
BR
Originally posted by DB2-R81
[B]
2.75 degrees negative camber front
1.75 degrees negative camber rear
1/16" toe out front
0.0 toe out rear
2.5 degrees positive caster [/B]
Thanks for your response. Why is it not good to have rear toe? Is this set up okay for street use?
Hello MrFrost,
Toe out in the rear will loosen up the rear end, twitchy and will allow the car to be more prone to oversteer.
If I were daily driving I would consider running a bit less camber around -2.0 degrees in the front is a good compromise. Just remember to rotate your tires often and flip them on the wheels at half their life if you’re going to use them for autocrossing. Because with this setting your going to see outside shoulder tire ware if you drive aggressively while competing.
Mr Frost: Keep in mind if you have been using this car for quite some time and have gotten use to specific settings then you may not be comfortable with something dramatically different. Because you did not list your current settings its hard to tell whether there will be a ‘learning curve’ for you to have to endure. I have set many a cars up perfectly for the track on paper, only to have friends/ customers complain the car feels Alien. What works for most, may not work for you, right away. You may want to allow sometime on familar roads after dialing the car in and before hitting the track.
HTH,
J.
DB2 and J,
Do you guys alighn your own cars? Do you need a portable alighnment rack or something. Also my car has factory alighnment specs presently. Right now its a very neutral car when its dry. In the rain its somewhat unpredictable, probably due to my driving. I’d like to have a bit more oversteer. I think I’ll try 1/16" toe out in front and 1/32" toe out in the rear. By the way DB2 were your specs for axle or per corner.
MrFrost: I don’t own any of my own alignment equipment but I do have someone who is very patient with me and understands my use. I would suggest finding someone who maybe specializes in lowerd cars or better yet specializes in performance alignments. Generally a shop like this will charge up-wards of a $100.00 but will allow you to reset, or even road test settings. I would just suggest finding a shop that you are comfortable in working with, and who understands your needs. Just like everything else in this industry, a good (insert parts, tool, body shop, tire etc…supplier here) is invaluable.
J.
Hello MrFrost,
The settings are per wheel.
Once a year or after any major component change in suspension hardware I have my car aligned by a long time driver, builder and professional mechanic on a laser alignment rack. I mark the settings and then use measurements with string, straight edges, laser pointers and a camber gauge to make changes from the known settings.
definitely some good readin’ here ARCHIVETHIS
DB2-R81- I’m curious, what do you do to adjust your caster? I know it involves changing the angle of the steering axis, but I am curious what method you use to do this.
Also, has anyone messed around with the Ackerman steering effect on our cars. This would provide an alternative to static toe out, providing straight line stability and braking, but still allowing the inside tire to have a greater steering angle than the outside. Right now, this is just theory until someone tests it, but several sources mention it as a way to reduce understeer, both on turn in and exit. I know there are other variables that this would involve, such as bump steer, load transfer, slip angles etc… but it is worth considering.
BTW… ARCHIVETHIS
Hey GSR01,
There are a few ways to adjust caster, you can flip the upper control arms from side to side, use adjustable upper ball joints, machine the rear shoulder of the radius rods and use varying thickness washers to adjust the effective length of the radius rods form front bushing to mounting point on the lower control arms and OMP makes an adjustable radius rod bushing which also allows adjustments to the effective length of the radius rods.
Increased caster angles are effective in providing less loss of camber while turning but more effective in providing straight-line stability at speed.