I’m a newby to the whole import performance scene.I’ve had my Teg for 2 years and want to rebuild the B17a for more power. I’m looking for suggestions on the bottom end…what rods and pistons are a good combination together? And will fit on the stock crank…i was told that 92-93 gsr’s had two different types of rods and would have to find out which i had before I could get new ones??? Is this true? Should i Get a new Crank or polish the old one? What should be done to the Block in the way of machine work(honing cylinders…etc)
I'm thinking of building an ITR top end...port polish and ITR components..I'm looking into getting a complete assembly from Acura but thinking thats going to be a bit pricey$$..anyone know what kind of price i'd be looking at for a ITR intake manifold???
well your better off buying a b16 head and getting it ported and polished. and do not order it from the dealer. I think a new head runs like around 1800 when i called. You can pick one up from a junkyard for under 500.
Then you can spend the extra cash on a nice valvetrain.
as long as you’re going all motor the stock bottom end is pretty damn strong. I’m also building up a b17a engine. here are my plans for the bottom end:
-oversized p30 pistons, yeild a tad over 10.9:1
-bore/hone/deck/balance (maybe micropolish the crank as well)
-maybe have the rods shot peened. They are pretty strong stock, but i might do it just for the added security.
-all new bearings and gaskets
the bottom end is pretty simple. The good rod/stroke ratio of the b17a means that you really don’t need to strengthen things up much unless you plan on turbo or something like that.
As far as the top end goes. Your b17a head is a pr3 head, which means its the exact same cast as the itr head (the itr just has a slight port/polish, and better valvetrain). So, probably your best bet is to keep the head you have, and just mod it.
All the itr valvetrain bolts in (obviously, since its the same casting). You can pick up some CTR cams, as well as itr valvesprings. If you want to go further you can get portflow or crower valvesprings and some lighter retainers. You could also consider having the head sent to portflow, they can do a port/polish job on it to make it flow even better than the itr head.
ITR intake manifold i believe runs about $250, but i might be a bit off.
Sweet thanks for the help guys…the p30 pistons you’re getting are they the ITR pistons? Will they fit into the stock bore on the B17a or will i have to get the cylinders bored out?I was on the Jdmhondaparts web site…Are there prices good in comparison to others? and has anyone bought anything from them…i was thinking about getting the Jdm Itr pistons.
the p30 pistons are from the jdm 92+ b16a. They will yeild higher compression than the jdm itr pistons. I forget exactly, but i believe the jdm itr pistons yeild about 10.6:1, while the p30’s yeild a tad over 10.9:1
yes they will fit w/o modifications. all b series engines are 81mm bore, except for the b20’s which are 84mm.
be aware that if you get the jdm itr pistons (as well as ctr’s, or any other b18c piston) that you’ll have to have the rods shaved about 1mm on each side. The pistons will not fit if you do not shave the rods. But shaving the rods is very easy, any machine shop can do it.
Either way you decide i’d personally opt for oversized pistons (thats what i’m doing). Just in case you happen to have a cylinder out of round or some scratches or anything. Plus you’ll get a tad extra displacement (nearly nothing), but hey, if you’re like me, every little bit counts! hehe.
The p30’s as well as the jdm itr’s are $330 w/ rings (+shipping and tax). I think thats a pretty good price. I plan on buying from jdmhondaparts unless i happen to find the p30’s for a better deal before then. But i’ve yet to see a site that has better prices on pistons (if i find a better price it will probably be on ebay or through a private seller).
I’ve heard good things about them. But i’ve also heard they can be a little slow, and that they aren’t as friendly as they could be. But still i haven’t heard any really negative things about them.
Hey thanks again man…you know your stuff…Wouldn’t shaving the rods weaken them…or no…I just don’t want to have to tear everything apart again if something goes wrong…don’t have the bucks $$to do that…So i want to make sure i do it right the first time…
Now with the pistons…I don’t want my compression ratio too high…i want to still be able to use 92 octane…anything higher is hard to find in Canada only some stations have it…I think I’m leaning towards the oversized Itr pistons.
the shaving shouldn’t weaken them. I don’t believe youre removing material from an area that is really strained much anyway. I really don’t know the details about this, but i wouldn’t worry about it. Everyone i’ve talked to about it has been a very cautious or intelligent person (car/engine wise) and they haven’t told me any risks would be involved. So, i really wouldn’t worry.
you won’t have any trouble what so ever running the jdm itr pistons (10.6:1 compression) on 92 octane. In fact here in cali all we can get is 91 octane. And i’m planning on running about 11:1 compression. From everyone i’ve talked to and all the research i’ve been doing it seems that 11:1 will be perfectly safe on 91 octane. A little high, but still shouldn’t be anything to worry about. I’ve even been told i could probably get away with 11.3:1, but that might be risky. So, 10.6:1 on 92 octane should be perfectly fine. personally i’d get the p30’s… compression is your friend! Plus, with the p30’s you won’t have to pay to have the rods shaved.
Oh really…I thought you had to shave the rods for the p30’s as well…well you might have changed my mind…the less modifications i have to make the better it is on my wallet
Originally posted by cspeed 91integgs just may be the biggest b17a fan now… so knowledgeable…
hehe, i’m trying! I figure i should know as much as possible before i start building and swapping. Actually recently i’ve been contemplating the idea of having it bored out to 84mm and resleeved. However i really doubt i’d be able to afford it. But i’m at least going to look into it.
Ok heres another one for you…I want to go with JDM cams…what is a good combination…both ITR, both CTR or a combination of the 2(if so which one for intake and exhaust)
What is the Bore size of the oversized B16A/P30 pistons
Originally posted by Brunswck
[B]Ok heres another one for you…I want to go with JDM cams…what is a good combination…both ITR, both CTR or a combination of the 2(if so which one for intake and exhaust)
What is the Bore size of the oversized B16A/P30 pistons
What is re-sleeving?
thanks [/B]
the itr and ctr exhaust cams are the same. But the ctr intake cam is larger than the itr intake cam. So getting both ctr cams, or ctr intake cam and itr exhaust cam is essentially the exact same setup. Getting both itr cams will still provide good power, but from what i hear there is a noticable difference if you upgrade to the ctr setup.
Oversized pistons are .25 over. I asked how much “.25” was awhile back and didn’t really get any good answers. i think its 81.25mm instead of the stock 81.0mm. But i’m not positive. I’m planning on ordering the oversized pistons, measuring them, and then taking the block to the machine shop. This way i know the size for sure before i get it bored.
resleeving is where you bore out the stock sleeves, and slip in some stronger sleeves. Golden eagle makes some sleeves that can handle 40+psi of boost. there are essentiall 2 reasons to get stronger sleeves:
You’ve going forced induction and need the added strength
You want to run a much larger bore. Since boring the stock sleeves will make them thinner, and thus weaker, you will want to run a stronger material sleeve, that is safe at that thinner thickness.
Ok…I’ve started taking my teg apart…I’ve got everything off the engine and I tried to hoist it out but i can’t get the passenger mount out of its housing without out lifting the car up… the bolts won’t come off the mount it self…I figured if i could get the rear mount bracket off it would all just come out…anyone have any suggestions for getting the rear mount bracket off the engine…I know its a weird question but i figure i would get the best answer here…thanks
any engine removal tips would be helpful at this point
ps.got my ctr cams and valve spring in the mail yesterday
What’s up Brunswick, I live in Port Dover and am going to be home in the summer. Where are you getting all your parts from? I’ve been doing all my buying over here in New Hampshire while I’m at school but I’m going to be home in about a week. I’m just curious to see where you get all your gear.
BTW, are you interested in audio for your car? Have you ever dealt with Custom Car Audio in Brantford? Thought you might know something.
Hit me back, and we can chill in the summer over a beer or two and shoot the sh*t
Hey I got the motor out and the tranny off…Thats a big deal for me having never done this sort of thing before!!! I’ll have pics to post soon!!! I just put the engine on a stand last night…so its coming along!
hey greenrum for sure i’d have a beer with ya bro. you can come see my project in progress if you want
I haven’t dealt with custom auto sound, but a few of my friends have and i haven’t heard them complain
This ? goes out to 91tegGs.
I’m also planning a B17a build up but I was contemplating a b18a block bored to 81.5 and dropping the comp ratio to 8.5 and goin turbo. What are your thoughts on that and what all is going to be included in slapping my head on that block. I’ve read tons of things on having tho tap the oil supply line for vtec? Do u know anything more on that. I f you know of anything other little details I might need with the build up of an ls/vtec let me know
Thanks,
Paul
Originally posted by KURSD92 This ? goes out to 91tegGs.
I’m also planning a B17a build up but I was contemplating a b18a block bored to 81.5 and dropping the comp ratio to 8.5 and goin turbo. What are your thoughts on that and what all is going to be included in slapping my head on that block. I’ve read tons of things on having tho tap the oil supply line for vtec? Do u know anything more on that. I f you know of anything other little details I might need with the build up of an ls/vtec let me know
Thanks,
Paul
well, i’m not a big fan of turbo, so i’ve yet to learn much about it. My current plans are all motor. Maybe if i ever decide to build another engine i’ll consider turbo.
do a search for ls/vtec i’ve explained a lot about it all too many times, there are MANY threads dealing w/ ls/vtec here on the boards.
Oversized pistons are .25 over. I asked how much “.25” was awhile back and didn’t really get any good answers. i think its 81.25mm instead of the stock 81.0mm. But i’m not positive. I’m planning on ordering the oversized pistons, measuring them, and then taking the block to the machine shop. This way i know the size for sure before i get it bored.
[/B]
“.25 over” means .25mm wider than the stock bore, so 81.25mm is correct.
BTW don’t trust B17a rods as much as you all seem to be. mojoGSR92 snapped his on a stock motor. Granted, he had a lot of miles, and drove it hard, but the increased compression and engine speed of a modified motor will produce more strain on the rods. Compression/stetching force upon the rods increases exponentially with rpm (I believe). So machining the rods at the weak end (small end), will weaken them a bit. You may want to look into ITR rods paired with ITR pistons, or shotpeen your stock rods, but they are still kind of spindly.
“.25 over” means .25mm wider than the stock bore, so 81.25mm is correct.
BTW don’t trust B17a rods as much as you all seem to be. mojoGSR92 snapped his on a stock motor. Granted, he had a lot of miles, and drove it hard, but the increased compression and engine speed of a modified motor will produce more strain on the rods. Compression/stetching force upon the rods increases exponentially with rpm (I believe). So machining the rods at the weak end (small end), will weaken them a bit. You may want to look into ITR rods paired with ITR pistons, or shotpeen your stock rods, but they are still kind of spindly. [/B]
the b17a rods are 131.87mm, while the itr rods are 137.9mm. Wouldn’t you need custom pistons or some other mods to make them work properly??
“.25 over” means .25mm wider than the stock bore, so 81.25mm is correct.
BTW don’t trust B17a rods as much as you all seem to be. mojoGSR92 snapped his on a stock motor. Granted, he had a lot of miles, and drove it hard, but the increased compression and engine speed of a modified motor will produce more strain on the rods. Compression/stetching force upon the rods increases exponentially with rpm (I believe). So machining the rods at the weak end (small end), will weaken them a bit. You may want to look into ITR rods paired with ITR pistons, or shotpeen your stock rods, but they are still kind of spindly. [/B]
Colin is correct. You cannot use ITR rods in a PR3 block with a B17A1 crankshaft.
The connecting rods for a B17A1 are shorter and wider than B16A rods. They are no doubt just as strong if not stronger than a PR3 rod. A failed rod on a naturally aspirated or factory motor usually comes from either a failed rod bearing, dropped valve or loss of lubrication. I have never heard of a connecting rod that just failed on its own. Another condition or failure somewhere else which is related to the connecting rod is what leads to its failure.
I had my rods examined prior to having them shot peened. No cracks or signs of stress anywhere, and the motor had 100,000+ miles when I disassembled it.
