B18A to B18B top end swap info

ASSISTANCE Hybrids & Advanced Aftermarket Engine Performance
1

The head is direct bolt on. I believe the Throttle body is slightly bigger on the B18B, I have yet to verify this. You will need your current distributor as well as injectors.
Definitely a better flowing intake manifold, as well as a better designed set of cams, so it is recommended to get those too.

The vacuum lines need to be rerouted a little bit, and this was what was done to my car:

For a full size pic, just type in (.orig.jpg) after the address without the brackets.

(The brake booster bracket was removed, and the hose was routed as such; an ITR hose would fix the problem)

Hope this helps some of you guys/gals.

ARCHIVETHIS

2

THANKS MANGO! I was kinda wondering about exactly how the hoses were hooked up from other members that did this! THANKS! :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

3

Anyone care to share the differences between the 90-91 IM and 92-93 IM and 94+ IM?

4

92+
Better design and shorter runners I believe

5

Any elaboration on “better design”. I’ve got both side by side (well one on the car, one not on the car) and they look nearly identical. I don’t care about shorter runners since this thing isn’t going up to 8500rpm… Regardless, I’m getting an IM cut open and ported, and I’m wondering what the major differences are on the 90-91 compared to my 92 I now have. I’m expecting everything to be 10x better once its all ported when compared to stock 91 or stock 92 anyway.

6

Originally posted by rcnacura
92+
Better design and shorter runners I believe

THE 92+ redlines higher, pushin more HP out of the motor.

for 90-91, if it is possible to get your redline to 6800 RPM, you will see that you will produce 140 HP or close to…

later

7

Originally posted by chingro
THE 92+ redlines higher, pushin more HP out of the motor.

Chingro, are you talking about the vtec or the LS engine? Honda hasn’t increased the overall RPM redline on the LS for as long as I know on the b series motor. My 1990 RS, which is the same as the LS and GS, redlines at 6700-6800rpm. The GSR, which was made in 92+ redlines at 8100prm I believe, but don’t quote me on that because I’m not all that well informed on vtec engine stats.

The early CRV b20b engine (97-98) is the engine that redlines at 6200rpm, the b20z (99-00) redlines at 6700, and the b18b(integra engines) redlines at 6800rpm.

The better design is in the IM and the internals in the headwork. They enlarged the ports, not sure if it was the intake or the exhaust ports, but those, either or. The exhaust manifold is a better design as well. It has better flow. The cams are more “aggressive” compared to the 90-91 b18a’s too.

E-DA9 THANKS AGAIN FOR THE VACCUM LINE SCHEMATICS!!! The b20 monster is underway!

HtH

8

MANGO~ The trick to getting the pics from imagestation to work is to take the ‘.orig.jpg’ off of the end of the link. It will show the pic if you do that. Thanks for the thorough explanation of the head swap also.

9

rcnacura, Honda did increase the redline on LS’s. 90-91 they redline at 6,600 and in 92-93 they redline at 6,700-6,800. I know for a fact that the redline is higher, I’m just not really sure where it is on 92-93’s. I don’t want to talk about 94+ redlines cause I’m not really sure where they redline at.

chingro: The extra 10 HP isn’t from the intake manifold alone, its from a combination of the Intake Manifold, better cams and better header.

If you just put a 92-93 IM on a 90-91 head and reved up to 6,800, you would not be making 140hp.

-Steve

10

i’m not certain, but its possible that the 92+ ecu’s have a different map to take advantage of the higher flow potential. May be the IM, head, cams, EM, and the computer combining for the extra 10 hp. 10hp is baloney, tho, if its only because the torque peaks a little higher, with no real torque increase.

d

11

Originally posted by DAY U IZ
[B]rcnacura, Honda did increase the redline on LS’s. 90-91 they redline at 6,600 and in 92-93 they redline at 6,700-6,800. I know for a fact that the redline is higher, I’m just not really sure where it is on 92-93’s. I don’t want to talk about 94+ redlines cause I’m not really sure where they redline at.

chingro: The extra 10 HP isn’t from the intake manifold alone, its from a combination of the Intake Manifold, better cams and better header.

If you just put a 92-93 IM on a 90-91 head and reved up to 6,800, you would not be making 140hp.

-Steve [/B]

acctually the 10 extra HP, is from the redline and intake manifold…the cams for both heads are identical…(from my experience)…i placed a 93 head on a 90 block…and it ran the same as the 90 tegs…the 92-93 was faster…
i then dropped the same engine in a 93 body shell, hence upgrading to a 93 intake manfold and ecu.
and the car got the extra +HP…(not sure how much…but i was there with the 93’s)
so i concluded…that the ECU settings and manifold is the only thing making the extra 10HP…

if you have any data or experiences…plz share it

i have had my shares on head swappin…from ZC’s head on a “88” 1.6L block with cams, and high compression pistons ( cam floated and killed the engine)
three LS/VTEC’s…(last one being mine)
first gen B16 head on GSR block…(ran slower than a stock GSR)
first gen B16 head on 2000 B16 block…(same as any other B16’s)

just some sh** to see if i can discover something…

now lookin for a B20Z’s block to do some trial and errors with…

later

12

http://www.skiflazkrew.f2s.com/lsvtec.html

http://www.skiflazkrew.f2s.com/whatisvtec.html

above i have two articles i put together…on

WHAT IS VTEC?
WHAT AND HOW??..LS/VTEC

i am working on an article now on

V.V.T.L.I. tag V.V.T.I. vs V.T.E.C. tag I-V.T.E.C.

your can read what i have…and plz reply

13

Well, i don’t have any personal LS parts swapping experience, and maybe i’m just being technical, but the 200 rpm redline increase isn’t what makes the peak power higher. The peak is down around 6k on my car. My '90 redline is at 6600 indicated, but the fuel cutoff is at 7k. I could rev to 7 all day and just lose power. If the computer is involved, then its gotta be some fuel mapping changes.

I’ve always understood that a better flowing exhaust manifold was part of it too, tho (no proof available), perhaps the condition of your swapped parts had some bearing?? The ten hp increase between '91 and '92 is due to the 121lbs peaking higher in the band (according to specs i’ve seen, unless they were typos). Not really somthing a butt dyno should be able to notice (ie. can only feel tork). Anyways, it sounds like you’ve been having lots of fun out there.

d

14

There is a difference between the two heads and the b18b cams are slightly more agressive. I took some measurements on them because I thought I got screwed on some cams, but they are a “little” different.

And there is no way that the extra 200rpm redline is going to make the added HP. The LS engine aren’t the top end motors like the vtec. I’ve seen dyno’s and the difference is where the 10hp is made.

I’m still somewhat skeptical on the increased redline claim, but who know I don’t work for honda. As daver said it might be fuel mapping. Or what I think, the increased port sizes with the IM, and EM.

15

It’s one of the things i remember looking for when i compared my '90 to my cousins '92 way back. The '92 redline was definately 6800ish indicated (over my 6600). Semantics tho

16

Originally posted by rcnacura
[B]There is a difference between the two heads and the b18b cams are slightly more agressive. I took some measurements on them because I thought I got screwed on some cams, but they are a “little” different.

And there is no way that the extra 200rpm redline is going to make the added HP. The LS engine aren’t the top end motors like the vtec. I’ve seen dyno’s and the difference is where the 10hp is made.

I’m still somewhat skeptical on the increased redline claim, but who know I don’t work for honda. As daver said it might be fuel mapping. Or what I think, the increased port sizes with the IM, and EM. [/B]

well maybe you got ripped off after all, i have right now in my hand as i speak…sets of cams from bothe the 90 and 93…

hmmmmmmmmmm, did the measureing before,and still same.

looks pretty much the same today…*unless I GOT RIPPED OFF. (which could be posible)

well rightnowi dont care, these are useless now…

y?

ans: :mad: VTEC:mad:

let me tell you something…

Redline is just a single point on a engine’s performance, you will have to look throughout the dyno’s sheet band to understand an engine’s behavior.
If a redline point on one engine is higher than a other (even just by 200rpm), the power difference can be tremendous, because the initial difference in the dyno line can occur at 2000, 3000, or @ any RPM point, and by the time both engine reaches redline…one can be up to 20HP above the other.

Originally posted by rcnacura
And there is no way that the extra 200rpm redline is going to make the added HP. The LS engine aren’t the top end motors like the vtec. I’ve seen dyno’s and the difference is where the 10hp is made.

both the 90-91 and 92-93 ls ecu’s can be completely different in setting and can create big differences in power, regardless of RPM redline points.

still not conviced?

take a look at the GSR engine…and the celica GTS.
the GTS is rated at 180hp, and the GSR is rated at 170hp
now believe it or not…the GSR is a stronger engine (power wise)and will pull a car down the quarted mile faster than the GTS, even though the GTS has a higher peak HP rating (10hp above the GSR).

the GTS has good power but the real power band is above 6300 RPM, and on the other hand, the GSR has power on the bottom end, and above 6300 RPM.

i am simply saying, numbers and redlines are not enough…a modified turbo VW bug, has a peak 350+hp to the wheel at 3000 RPM<<<…L@@K at how low that rpm level is…that is where us hondas are just gettin started.
yet a turbo GSR will push 350+hp to the wheel @ 8000 RPM…

thus both cars will behave very differently…

here is a link where the SAME engine (H22- prelude VTEC) is mounted with two different ECU’s (GSR’s ecu, and H22’s ecu) and look at the BIG difference in the behavior of the engine under the influence of two different ECU’s.

hope i explained it clearly for u…

later

17

Is it just me or are we talking about vtec engines or ls non vtec engines? There’s a difference.

But okay chingro, whatever you say :stuck_out_tongue:
You should know since your the vtec king! even though we are talking about ls engines. :smiley:

18

Originally posted by chingro
[B]

let me tell you something…

Redline is just a single point on a engine’s performance, you will have to look throughout the dyno’s sheet band to understand an engine’s behavior.
If a redline point on one engine is higher than a other (even just by 200rpm), the power difference can be tremendous, because the initial difference in the dyno line can occur at 2000, 3000, or @ any RPM point, and by the time both engine reaches redline…one can be up to 20HP above the other.

both the 90-91 and 92-93 ls ecu’s can be completely different in setting and can create big differences in power, regardless of RPM redline points.

quote:

Originally posted by rcnacura
And there is no way that the extra 200rpm redline is going to make the added HP. The LS engine aren’t the top end motors like the vtec. I’ve seen dyno’s and the difference is where the 10hp is made.

[/B]

Chingro, judging by rcnacura’s posts i think he understands what you have re-iterated, he just said it a little differently.

I think he’s saying what i was saying. If LS #2 has a redline that is 200 rpms higher than LS #1, it’ll only make a power difference (peak, that is) if #2’s hp is still increasing by the time it hits #1’s redline. I believe the '92s peak at around 6.2krpms (??) and from there it drops.

And forsure, if anything about the engine is different performance wise, whether it be intake manifold, header, fuel map, etc., the entire power band willk be affected.

chingro, Do you have anymore specs on that turbo VW bug setup? I can’t fathom how a small displacement turbo engine can make 350whp at only 3000rpms peak. You’d think a small displacement engine would have to have breathing problems to peak way down there, but at 350hp, i think its breathing;) .

You get your article done yet comparing vtec to toyota vvti tec yet? I’m looking forward to reading it. I’m curious to see what the celica’s r/s ratio is.

d

19

VTEC, NON VTEC…they are all engines

i was talking about engines…and i compared two…dont look at what type i used…

20

I didn’t finish reading all the posts, but the peerson that did 3 sets of our cams (startroops (92cams), Julian(91cams) and me(94cams)) said that the neewer ones are quitee different from thee old ones.

and 91integGS and I havee done extensive research on this; I know he’s right therefore I know I am right.