just wondering if there would be any noticable gain by swapping the cams from a 92-93 ls into my 91 ls?
You’ll need those and the 92-93 Intake manifold.
HTH 
Not worth it to me. Just go aftermarket.
$250 plus core and shipping I get u a set of Colt cams. (quite a feew of us 604s run it here and love em)
Gain in torque AND high end, perfect idle.
90-91 and 92-93 intake manifolds are the same.
you’ll need the 92-93 exhaust manifold to make a difference, unless you are running a header in which is better anyway.
the only difference in intake manifolds i have seen from 90-93 is the auto tranny equipped motors have an EGR valve on the Intake manifold.
i’m not surehow much of a difference from the 90-91 cams… i know 10 hp… but, it all depends on how much you pay for the 92-93 cams to whether its worth it… if you get them cheap, yes go for it… if you have to pay more than 150 for them. i say hold off and get yourself some crowers or other good cam brand.
Originally posted by 93integraRS
[B]90-91 and 92-93 intake manifolds are the same.
you’ll need the 92-93 exhaust manifold to make a difference, unless you are running a header in which is better anyway.
the only difference in intake manifolds i have seen from 90-93 is the auto tranny equipped motors have an EGR valve on the Intake manifold.
i’m not surehow much of a difference from the 90-91 cams… i know 10 hp… but, it all depends on how much you pay for the 92-93 cams to whether its worth it… if you get them cheap, yes go for it… if you have to pay more than 150 for them. i say hold off and get yourself some crowers or other good cam brand. [/B]
Are you sure? they look the same but according to 91integGS whose done extensive research on this they are different…hm…this is interesting…
if the guys still has them, he wants $30 for them with stock cam sprockets too.
30? go ahead youll like em. i got my whole head for 50 hehe. maybe you can even sell the cam gears… hm i need to sell my old head to actually profit from hte whole thing heh
tell you what…
i have a set of 90-91 cams and a set of 92-93 cams now that my performance cams are installed in my car…
i’ll inspect them and measure lift on them etc. and let you all know what i find.
i really need a degree wheel to be completely accurate but i’ll be able to tell if there is more lift on one set over the others.
well as promised here is my comparison of the 90-91 and 92-93 cams…
without a degree wheel its impossible to measure duration but i was able to measure total lift.
here’s what i found out.
90-91 cams
Intake: measured lift .212" and total lift (*with multiplier 1.75) .371"
exhaust: measured lift .203" and total lift* of .355"
92-93 cams
Intake: measured lift .224" and total lift* of .392"
exhaust: measured lift .210" and total lift* of .3675"
if anyone wants i can provide the lobe hight and width that i came up with the measured lift
looking at the lobe shape, i couldnt tell a difference, but again i’d need a degree wheel and dial indicator to see how much differnce there was.
from what i have measured, i would say there is a notable difference in the 2 sets of cams.
i will say this, its possible to run low 15 second 1/4 mile runs on stock 93 cams. maybe even quicker with some bumped up compression and bottom end work. also some intake work might help too… (bigger TB and either Skunk2 IM or ported LS IM)
i havent explored all possibilities with the stock 93 cams… would be fun to throw them in later after everything else i have planned is done.
i would say that the 92-93 cams if you can get them for reasonable price is a good upgrade over the 90-91 cams.
this is just my opinion from the research i’ve done.
Originally posted by E-DA9
[B]
Are you sure? they look the same but according to 91integGS whose done extensive research on this they are different…hm…this is interesting… [/B]
well, i wouldn’t call it extensive. but that is the info that was being passed around by everyone for quite awhile now. However about a month ago elmer mentioned that he thought the two manifolds were the same (shape and flow wise). Of course i’m not sure if he actually measured them or just kinda estimated.
I wish i had one of each because i’d really like to know 100% for sure what the deal is (i hate it that so much info is just word of mouth and that often there is no hard evidence to back it up).
i have a 90-91 intake manifold, and i compared it against my 93 IM, i honestly couldnt tell the differences in the runners and internally…
externally theres a few differences on the vaccuum lines…
now i didnt measure the inside of the runners or anything but visually they look the same.
all the casting lines are the same.
one of these days i think i’ll get them both flow tested.
excellent thanks for clearing that up. if you do a search you can find my posts of the differences i felt. definitely worth 30bucks.
but what device did you use and how accurate is it?
fyi, here are some specs of some cams:
toda A’s
intake lift: 11.6mm, duration: 250@1mm
exhaust lift: 11.2mm, duration: 240@1mm
jun type 1
intake lift: 10.9mm, duration: 265.3@1mm
exhaust lift: 10.0mm, duration: 268@1mm
skunk2
intake lift: 11.58mm, duration 252@1mm
exhaust lift: 10.9mm, duration 249@1mm
crower 63403
intake lift: 11.98mm, duration: 246@1mm
exhaust lift: 11.83mm, duration: 238@1mm
itr
intake lift: 11.5mm, duration: 240@1mm
exhaust lift: 10.5mm, duration: 235@1mm
ctr
intake lift: 11.5, duration: 243@1mm
exhaust lift: 10.5mm, duration: 235@1mm
i have the other toda, jun, and spoon specs if you want them
XDEep,
thanks for the cam profiles
ok… i use a dial caliper and it is accurate down to .001"
i’m very careful in making sure i get the right reading.
also its easy to test if these are accurate, just do what i did. get a feeler guage and measure them if the caliper matches the numbers on the feeler guage, u know its right.
edit:
i dont know if i agree with the crower 403 measurements… unless that is a vtec cam measurement…
here’s what crower has listed for their 62403 cams
advertized Duratio In 243 / Ex 246
Duration @ .050" In 211 / Ex 210
Gross Lift w/1.75 In .423 / Ex .409
i just got off the phone with JG engine dynamics… i talked to a lady, didnt catch her name :(… anyway, i really wanted to talk to someone more technical but she really wouldnt let me past her on the phone.
i did get the LS line of cams from her and their total lift, i didnt bother with getting the durations.
JG cams total lift:
1001 In .360 / Ex .350
201 In .370/ Ex .370
301 In .388 / Ex .376
303 In .390 / Ex .390
MC 280 In .440 / Ex .440
403 In .450 / Ex .440
i’m kind of baffled on why someone would want some of those smaller profile cams… smaller than stock. i’m sure they might have more duration… but still… the stock 1993 b18a cams are In.392/Ex.367 … thats alot more than those 1001 cams.
btw, those MC280 and 403 cams are NA race cams that require spring kit and longer valve stems.
Crower has on their website that the stock B18B (note the B, not A) profile is In .395 / Ex .380
it could be that my cams are warn down (158k miles on them) or the b18B cams are slightly bigger.
sure np. oops i shoulda mentioned those crowers are 63403
well i did some more research yesturday, talking to Craig performance some more… Mark Craig’s a great guy, willing to give info… his expertise isnt really imports as he builds nascar race motors, but he knows his stuff and most everything from a v8 can be applied to a 4 bangers.
i had to explain exactly how the cam actuated the valves… (he thought the cams were under the rockers, not over)
but he explained how to read the cam profiles(grinds) given by the manufacturer…
what i learned is that duration of the cam has more of an effect on the motor than the actual lift.
thats why the JG 1001 cams make more power than stock (supposidly) even though they have less lift than the stock cams.
now i still would debate on whether the 1001 cams make more power than the 92-93 cams… i’d like to see a dyno sheet on them vs. the stock 92-93 cams in the same motor so all variables will be the same, other than cams.
fyi,
when reading a cam profile… and you see the duration @ .050" that means you are measuring the time the valve is open more than .050" in degrees…
so these are Crane Cams for our LS motors… its their stage 5 cams. pretty radical…
Advertised Duration Int/Exh 254 / 254
Duration @ .050 Int/Exh 226/226
Lobe Separation 104
Gross Lift 453/453
from what Mark Craig said, the advertized duration really doesnt give you much information as you could look at several cam profiles with the same advertized duration but are totally different cams.
so these cams stay open at .050" or more for 226 degrees of the rotation of the crank shaft.
the cams that we have offered to us really dont have the profiling that some of the race cams for the V8’s…
i was looking at the cam profiles for the v8s that Mark builds…
in their specs, they have duration @ .050", duration @ .100", duration @ .200" and duration @ .300" …
as you can see you’ll have a pretty good idea of the lobe shape and when comparing them with other cams you can see which one is more extreme and maybe you want one with less duration at a certain amount open…
learning this really opens my eyes on how much i really dont know LOL.
another funny thing is this… everyone i have talked to online or local that knows about building honda motors, says they’ve never heard of using a degree wheel to set their cam timing… mark craig told me they must not really care that they’re loosing hp. i told them that we normally just tune the car on a dyno. he said, thats all good, but, what if you are way off and you tune it where its at, sure you can get some more hp for how u have it setup, but, if you have them set properly the first time, you’ll be able to even find tune it more. and get even better hp than if you didnt use the degree wheel to set cam timing in the first place and just dyno it.
i’ve never talked to any “professional” tuner but i sure want to know what they are doing.
o.k so from all the imformation that has been osted which cams are good for our cars with the b18a1 engine.Stock 92-93 cams, crower 403’s, crane cams,etc.I have easier access to crane cams but haven’t found anyone on here that runs them.Do they look like they would be a good performer
well looking at the cam profiles,
the crane stage 4 cam is similar to the crower 62404 cams
the crower has a little more lift on intake side, but the crane has more duration on the intake side…
i’m not paying any attention to the “advertized” duration.
if the crane cams are billet cams and not regrinds, i’d give them a try :)… the crower’s are billet… JG cams are all regrinds.
except for their vtec cams which are billet.
i honestly would like to try the stage 5 crane cams
whether they’re crane, crower or some other major manufacturer, i’m sure they’re going to be pretty good. it all depends on how much time in R&D on the dyno they’ve spent with the cams.
i highly doubt that they just threw some cams in the grinder and used some arbritrary specs to grind them to.
the only way to really know how good they work is to get them and tune on a dyno for max performance.
i got off phone with crane tech support… their cams are not regrinds.
i’d give them a try if you can get them easier.