Hello,
I’ve dug around a bit and can’t seem to come up with what I’m looking for, so apologies in advance. (I may not be too good or the car is just a pain for this question)
I’m interested in building a 92 GS-R for road racing, but it comes with a few caveats. First and foremost, it doesn’t have the b17a. I was hoping to get it reduced to an LS. Reasons for this include the availability of parts for the b18a/b and more competitors in classes. I’m interested in both SCCA and NASA; however, the showing in Honda Challenge in TX is pretty sad. (If I’m looking at the scoring correctly, 1 H1 car)
Can anyone make recommendations as to what class I can fit into? I’m looking to purchase this because it’s an incredibly clean chassis with no prior damage and it’s locally available. I’ve looked at a few HC cars, but they’re all over the country. As for the ‘well how much experience do you have?’ questions that will come up, I’ve been running DE’s for a while but I’m nuts about it and will be working on a competition license in 2015. I just want to have a target to build toward.
Prepping a car for multiple series isn’t always the easiest thing… but looking at the HC rules it looks like you could run whatever class you want. HC is primarily classed by engine and weight, not trim level. So you could run in H1, H2, or H4 depending on what engine you want to run and how light the car is. https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/188/HCrulesv15_2014.6.pdf
H1: b17a isn’t specified, but I’m guessing they’d just let you class as a 1.8 since you’d specifically not be allowed to class with “b16a-series” engine. Assuming they let you do that, then the car would have to be no lighter than 2200lbs.
H2: Here there’s a specific classification for the b17a and you’d be limited to 10.2:1 and 2350lbs minimum
H4: You’d be forced to run a b18a/b and have a minimum weight of 2500lbs
I couldn’t easily find a link to the SCCA rules (all I found were the Solo rules) - do you have a link you can post? It’s been a few years since I looked but last time I did HC was much better in terms of small stuff like swapping between chassis, battery location, carbon fiber parts…etc stuff that really means very little in the grand scheme but can make car prep easier/cheaper or make it so the car you already have isn’t automatically in the top class.
Thanks Colin. I really like the rules for Honda Challenge, but the bad news is that I would podium every time I ran it. I checked the NASA points for 2014 and 1 driver did 1 race in H1 in my region. The nice thing is, if I ever sell the car, I can sell it as a ‘consistent podium’ car. lol The only thing I found on the SCCA Improved Touring was this. It’s from a third party site, so who knows how many years young it is.
The odds of me using a B17 is slim to none. There’s simply not enough replacements for when it decides to go. I was considering a b20 and running H2, but again, no one is running here. I love the b18a/b because I can go buy a pretty good running one for 400-500 in pinch. The thing that concerns me about the IT rules is that the it mentions how difficult it is to get re-classed and that it’s based on VIN numbers. Speaking of NASA, PTE looks like it may be an ok fit for the car. It looks like a lot of weight can be shaved.
Hopefully Wednesday I’ll have my first pictures and a list of parts to get started with. (After I pick it up) I’ll probably throw a build thread here in the track section since it’s a bastardized DB2, not JDM, has no rare OEM parts other than itself, no stretched tires, and won’t have a wooden steering wheel. :whew:
Looks like you could run a b17a in ITS or possibly a b18a in ITA. I would contact the local SCCA guys and see what they say about you using a DB2 chassis with a b18a. It may be worthwhile to search/inquire over at the RR/AutoX forum on Honda-tech as there are a lot of actual racers over there.
I didn’t have time to read the whole set of rules but it looks like NASA PT would put you in the PTF classification. Rules are a little unspecific but looks to me like a DA or DB2 would be PTF but a DC2 would be PTE.
IIRC you’re able to get this DB2 chassis for a good price but if your primary goal is to go racing then it may be worthwhile to wait, mull over the rules, decide on the ideal chassis and then pull the trigger on purchasing one. Building a race car is amazingly expensive and to put all that money into something then find out that you can’t run it where you want to would be a big disappointment. Regardless, I’m stoked to see someone is going to build a track G2, a real one not a hardparker and not some stupid car with all the current trendy stuff. I’ll definitely be looking for updates
I really don’t think that the b17 is worth fixing. Even if I do, maintaining it will be a pain. That said, it sounds like everything will either be a) getting the ok from regional directors or b) running in classes where swaps are allowed. (I’m actually really anxious to go B20 / (NoVTEC…OMG))
I’ll know tomorrow if I get the old pig. I’m excited (see join date). I’ll do what I can with what I can for now. You know the initial cost of caging and safety equipment is nuts, but I hope to bring some fun stuff that isn’t outlined in many of the books into this car.
What/Where do you run? I name all my cars after trailer park girls. My current girl, 2013 mustang gt (misti), just couldn’t take the abuse, and the things I do break are not cheap. Difference between a coyote and a b18 is about 7k… I will say, the latest generation of mustangs are no slouches.
This is a video in the mustang with nothing but brake pads, wheels, and (very)used NT-01s. I’ve done about 2 seconds faster, but it’s just uncomfortable going much faster without safety equipment. The 420HP pig pushes like you wouldn’t believe! A well prepped integra will the same (probably better), but as they say, it’s much more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
[video=youtube_share;FKxQDoXKsHo]http://youtu.be/FKxQDoXKsHo[/video]
I think the b17a is a great engine but I agree that if you’re looking for a long term plan then the b17a is not the way to go. You are going to blow motors when racing so you’re going to need to replace them and replacing the b17a isn’t all that easy. If you get yourself into a class with a different engine you won’t have to potentially change classes or change the car simply because you need to move to a different drivetrain when the first one blows. I recently blew my b17a and went with a JDM spec ITR build instead.
My comment about costs was mainly regarding the cage and initial build costs in reference to the idea that if you dump a bunch of $$ into a “DB2” stamped chassis only later to find out that you’re screwed you’re never going to recoup those costs. All the other stuff (engine, trans, suspension…etc) is, at least for the most part, moveable to any other chassis so those costs can be ignored since you could also use most of those parts if you were going to change to a DA, EG, or DC. The cage and the hours and hours of stripping out and customizing all the little stuff won’t swap to a new chassis.
Over the past few years I’ve been trying to get out and do as many track days as possible and was running the HFF Challenge which is a time trial event. Other than LeMons races I’ve never done any real wheel to wheel racing. My car is technically still a street car and registered (has a cat and everything) but it’s not really anything you’d want to drive around because it’s loud and uncomfortable. There are a few tracks within a few hours of me including Willow Springs, Buttonwillow and Chuckwalla. I bought a house in May of this year so all car projects and driving have basically been put on indefinite hold because I no longer have any disposable income. That was right around when I wrapped up my ITR swap and got new wheels, so I don’t really have any decent current pics with the new engine bay overhaul & TE37SL’s. But here are some old pics and a bad pic of the current state of the car.
i dyno reclassed my 92 integra with the b18a1 in NASA TTE. i’m allowed minimum weight 2295 lbs and 140 whp with base class of PTE*/TTE*. it’s not tough; you dyno your car, send an email to Greg at NASA with your weight and horsepower, and he gives you a few options for a base class that are close to your desired weight and dyno power.
Thanks a lot hufflepuff. We’ll see what he wants to do with a b20 in there. Hoping to sneak into PTE with low horsepower. I also have no idea what the engine came out of so that doesn’t help things much! P8R head, block marked 99, and I can’t find a knock sensor lol
i’m using restrictor plate to help shave horsepower. I actually am using a second dyno reclass option of 2345# and 143WHP, since i’ll never make it to 2295#.
I couldn’t fine any published data or restrictor plate size vs horsepower change, so if anyone cares, for a typical NA DOHC engine (non-VTEC Honda, BMW E30/E36, Miata), I’ve come up with a decent approximation:
Diameter Ratio = e^(-0.034 * % HP loss required)
where “diameter ratio” is restrictor plate diameter / throttle body inner diameter
and % horsepower loss required should be self-explanatory.
Caveats: This is probably only accurate for % HP loss between 0% and 20%, and only on similar NA engines. This is based on restrictor plate dyno numbers I gathered on the web for spec miatas, GTS cars (E36, E30), and non-vtec Hondas. A throttle body with a significant taper or venturi could throw things off.
So if I have an M3 making 230WHP and I need to lose 20WHP (about 8.7%), you get
DR = e^(-0.034 * 8.7) = 0.744. So 0.744*stock TB diameter gives you your restrictor plate hole size.
This equation is just an approximation! Fine tuning will be required, and YRMV.
