FCM- Man I’ve been busy all week with work. Today I have the time to get on my car again.
Okay, I’ve did the by pass test with a 10 gauge wire. The engine turned. So if that turns than the starter is still good.
I have the same multi-meter as “Local”. I tested the battery terminals and got a reading of 11.91! Thats below 12v. A draw somewhere right? How do I check that?
Continuity checked good, according to your instructions.
Whats next?
[QUOTE=fcm;1745582]Start by testing voltage, set meter to 20V on the DCV scale.
Place black probe on batt. neg.(-) terminal and red probe on batt. pos.(+) terminal, read voltage.
Next move red probe to pos.(+) stud on starter motor, read voltage.
Next have someone try and start the car, [with the key] and you place the red probe on the starter wire, the one that plugs into the solenoid, read voltage.
Now do a continuity check, your meter does not have a continuity setting so set it to diode test, [between DCA and 200 on the OHM scale], touch probes together, remember the reading, now place black probe on batt. neg.(-) post and the red probe on the starter motor case, what is the reading? it should be very close to the one you get when you touch the probes together.
Let me know.
94[/QUOTE]
For clarification:
1.11.89
2.11.88
3. have no one to start it.
4. continuity check is good.
If the engine turns over when you do the jump test then the starter motor and solenoid are good, so are the batt. terminal connections and the chassis and engine grounds, and the batt. itself.
BTW are you doing the bypass test when the car will not start with the key?
Are you just jumping from the batt. pos.(+) terminal to the starter solenoids trigger input?
If so…
Your problem is between the ign. switch and the starter relay, the first thing I would check is the ign. switch itself, you can do a bypass on the ign. switch also, you will need to remove the lower dash trim and the steering column trim to access the ign. switch harness, the problem may be a poor connection in the ign. switch between the 12V+ constant input to the switch and the starter output, [with no contact when batt. voltage has dropped a little] to jump the ign. jump from the white lead, [12V+ input] to the black/white lead, [starter output lead], or use the meter to test for power on the black/white when ign. switch is in start, clutch does not need to be depressed.
If you have power there then you will need to check the starter relay, start by checking the input, [black/white] it should have the same voltage as it does at the ign. switch, clutch does not need to be depressed, if voltage is good check the output, [also a black/white] the clutch will have to be depressed to test the output, if no output, ground to chassis the thinner 3rd lead at the relay, black/white or blue, [it’s from the “Clutch Interlock Switch” it supplies the relays coil with a ground when clutch pedal is depressed] if still no output, unplug the relay and install a jumper between the two heavy black/white leads and try and start the car with the key, if car starts replace the relay.
[QUOTE=fcm;1753005]If the engine turns over when you do the jump test then the starter motor and solenoid are good, so are the batt. terminal connections and the chassis and engine grounds, and the batt. itself.
BTW are you doing the bypass test when the car will not start with the key?
Are you just jumping from the batt. pos.(+) terminal to the starter solenoids trigger input?
.[/QUOTE]
yes I am.
Thanks for bearing with me. I 'm a busy guy doing other things. So now, all has been ruled out. Now we are looking at the ign. switch and starter relay? The weekend is the only time I can do those tests that you mentioned. Again thanks for bearing with me. Talk to you on Saturday.
OK, talk to you then.94
[QUOTE=fcm;1753005]
Your problem is between the ign. switch and the starter relay, the first thing I would check is the ign. switch itself, you can do a bypass on the ign. switch also, you will need to remove the lower dash trim and the steering column trim to access the ign. switch harness, the problem may be a poor connection in the ign. switch between the 12V+ constant input to the switch and the starter output, [with no contact when batt. voltage has dropped a little] to jump the ign. jump from the white lead, [12V+ input] to the black/white lead, [starter output lead], or use the meter to test for power on the black/white when ign. switch is in start, clutch does not need to be depressed.
.[/QUOTE]
Man I’m sorry for my ignorance, but I’m not comprehending your instructions on how to test the ign. switch. When testing the leads, where do you place the volt meter probes at? Is the copper wire accessable to place the probes to get a reading? Where does the red probe go and the black probe go?
I know… your probably saying, “Geez what the hell is wrong with this guy”
I still haven’t messed around with the car yet until Saturday. Thanks for your patience.
Your testing for voltage so the black probe goes to ground, and you can access the leads at the back of the ign. switch, [wires look like they are soldered to the back of the switch] or at the plug(s) at the other end of the ign. switch harness, [where terminal is in the plastic plug].
I know… your probably saying, “Geez what the hell is wrong with this guy”
Not really, I know how hard it is to explain something, [over the Internet] that seems very simple to me, I have had rookie installers who couldn’t pick up on something I was explaining as I was showing them.
So just keep asking questions, and if you do not understand, ask again, remember…
“There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers”:rimshot: 94
[QUOTE=fcm;1753005]If the engine turns over when you do the jump test then the starter motor and solenoid are good, so are the batt. terminal connections and the chassis and engine grounds, and the batt. itself.
BTW are you doing the bypass test when the car will not start with the key?
Are you just jumping from the batt. pos.(+) terminal to the starter solenoids trigger input?
.[/QUOTE]
Check this out, I left my car sitting in the garage for a week now. Prior to that, I disconnected the alarm system so I will not drain the battery. Today I go ahead and “try to start the car with the key”. No start or turn over. Then I do the bypass test. (terminal trigger to positive battery terminal) I get no start or sound. Read voltage of two year old optima (Red) battery and got a 4.85 reading! what the?
Should I start the “ign switch test” still? Help!!!
Replace the batt. it has gone west.
The other possibility is that there is another drain on the batt. other then the alarm, before you replace the batt. get it charged up again, [to the point it will start the car] then disconnect it, test the voltage, each day for a few days and see what happens, if voltage drops below 12.5V, replace the batt. 94
[QUOTE=fcm;1756235]Replace the batt. it has gone west.
The other possibility is that there is another drain on the batt. other then the alarm, before you replace the batt. get it charged up again, [to the point it will start the car] then disconnect it, test the voltage, each day for a few days and see what happens, if voltage drops below 12.5V, replace the batt. 94[/QUOTE]
Back again. Okay I changed the battery which I should of done in the beginning. It had a free replacement warranty. Its started up smoothly.
Question is… I’m afraid that something might drain my battery again. What should I do or check? Thanks
A simple basic check is to use a multimeter set to DC amps disconnect the batt. pos.(+) terminal and connect one meter probe to the batt. post and the other to the batt. cable and read the draw.
An even more basic test is to again disconnect the batt. pos.(+) terminal and then touch, [on and off] an edge of the clamp to the batt. post and watch the spark you get, [this is best done out of bright lighting, like at dusk].
You will always get a little spark especially the first time you touch the batt. post but after 3 - 4 times in a row, there should be very little or no spark at all.
Make sure everything in the car is off, [door closed so dome light is not on] if you have an audio system the first spark will be a good one, even bigger if you have a cap on the system, the longer you have the batt. disconnected before you do the “touch test” the bigger the first spark will be, but after the 3rd or 4th touch it should again be almost not noticeable.
If you continue to get a big spark you have an excessive current draw, you will have to disconnect, [remove fuses] one at a time those items that have a constant power connection, EG; a clock, the constant power fuse for the radio, the main fuse for an amp.:dozing:94
It started with the new battery on Monday. I left the car to sit for four days days. Today (Sunday), I read the voltage before I started it. It was 7.12. I checked all the fuses and they seem to be good. The car didn’t start too.
I did the “touch test” and it was good. First spark was big, then the rest were very little.
I jumped started it and it started. reading went back to 13. something. Right now I disconnected the neg - battery so nothing will drain it. Till I get back to it this weekend again. Luckily for my company car.
You definitely have an excessive draw, now it’s just a matter of finding it.:sipread: 94
Where would I check first?
Check any constant power circuit.
Do you have an aftermarket audio system, with amp(s) connected directly to the batt.?
It’s not something silly like the trunk/hatch light stays on, or glove box light, is it?
If it is nothing obvious like the above, pull all the constant power fuses, except the main(s) and see if you still have a draw.
At this point you really need a multimeter, do you have one or can you borrow one?
If not you are going to have to buy one, you can get a digital one that will do the job for $20 at Radio Shack.:dozing: 94
Yeah I said earlier I have a the exact same multimeter as that one guy who posted his up. The yellow one. And yeah its from radio shack.
Sorry man but the “constant fuses” would be what? Which ones?
and yes I have an aftermarket revolving face HU along with an amp.(450 watts)
I don’t see any led lights on the amp when the car is off.
Set the meter to DCA, [DC amps], disconnect the batt. pos.(+) terminal, connect one probe to the batt. post and the other to the batt. terminal/cable clamp, the reading you get is the current draw on the batt., [with everything off].
Start by removing the fuse in the amps power cable, [it is a constant power fuse, hot at all times], check current draw again, what is it now, if no diff. leave fuse out?
Do the same with any other constant power fuses, starting with the main 120A, draw should be 000 with main fuse removed, if it is reinstall the fuse, if there is still a draw, the problem is in the starter motor or starter motor solenoid.
One by one remove and reinstall the other constant power fuses, checking what the current draw is with the fuse out.
Not sure what all the constant power fuses are on a G2, test with meter first, some are…
Fuse 15 - 7.5A “under dash fuse box” alternator
Fuse 37 - 20A “under hood fuse box” horn
Fuse 14 - 15A “UDFB” constant for HU
Fuse 12 - 15A “UDFB” radiator fan motor
Fuse 20 - 15A “UDFB” A/C compressor clutch relay
Fuse 5 - 20A or 30A “UDFB” power door lock control unit
Fuse 30 - 80A “UHFB” power window main relay
Fuse 33 - 50A “UHFB” head light switch
As you can see, there are a few of them, there are more, they may also be the fuse for other things then mentioned
EG; fuse 14 -15A, [hot at all times] in under dash fuse box is the fuse for the dome, map lights if you have them and trunk/hatch light, but also the constant for the HU and probably the cars lighter and clock.
When you pull the fuse of the circuit that is drawing the excessive current, the reading on the meter will drop a lot, there will always be a little draw, the HU has memory, the cars ECU/ECM has a memory, the clock has a memory.
I will check my 94LS and let you know what mine is, when I get to work this morning.:dozing: 94
Okay I did what you did. I just checked ALL the fuses under the dash and the engine compartment. With each fuses one by one removed, I got a reading of 000 on ALL of them.
Check this out… I think I found the culprit on this. Wish I can take pictures of it, but my camera is being repaired. Looking at the fuse box (under the dash), second row far left is lug terminal shoved in the empty (no fuse) slot. (Diagram shows no fuse goes there) Its crimped with TWO small gage wires coming out of it. I followed the wires to where it leads to.
One wire leads to the led switch in front of my dashboard that turns on the fog lights.
The other wire is going to the battery.
But even though the car is shut off, that led switch is still on. Like I said I THINK thats the problem. Cause I left the car sitting there for a couple of days, checked the battery with the mulitmeter is still read good. It started fine too. Usually the battery reading in three days would be like 4.11.
I’m going to leave the car sitting for a week and then start it to see if the constant led switch was the culprit.
sometimes the simplest things:cross: 94
ahh… fuck it, i’m bringing this one back. After much debate on whether to resurrect this thread or not, i’ve decided… I gotta know what happened! it’s like a 4 page long soap opera… what happened in the end!!
I’ve got the EXACT same problem!! it’s crazy. I was about to post a new thread, but i was like, “nah, i’ll search” and damnnit i gotta know if this fixed the problem or not… I also have an Optima Red top. It’s probably about 3-4 years old? I was getting this same problem, so i got the battery checked out at oreilly’s. everything checked up fine… Battery, starter, alternator, battery capacity… all 100%.
so then I read this whole thread… and read this whole thread:
http://g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153621
and was like, "ohh… " so i found a speaker wire that was connected directly to the (+) batt terminal and i traced it down. It went to one of those crimp on fuses under the steering column. I couldn’t tell where the other side went to, but i figured it would be just fine if i pulled the fuse out. So i did so and all the electronics worked just fine and it started normally (of course it did cuz i just got back from Oreilly’s, it hadn’t even been an hour yet). So i’m leaving it off now and I’ll see if I have any start up troubles tomorrow… Wish me luck… Akira… RESULTS???