Doing a PCV / Catch Can Write-up...tell me what you think!

I just started writing the article about an hour or two ago, and am still actually learning myself but wanted to see what everyone else thought of the article. Pictures will accompany the article but for now just words will have to do. Any and all feedback, suggestions, and comments is/are welcome.

In an engine, there are two areas of air pockets in which the air is not directly related to combustion. Within these two areas, oil and air are separated from the combustion chambers and coolant jackets for the purpose of lubrication of the engine. The upper air and oil pocket is constrained by the valve cover at the top, and the valve seals at the lower end. The bottom air and oil pocket is constrained by the piston rings at the top and the oil pan in the bottom.

In a perfect world, these two lubrication areas would not pressurize. However, in real life compression leaks by valve seats and piston rings in what is called blow-by. Blow by introduces pressure into the two pockets of air and oil (the head and the crankcase). In addition, heat caused as a byproduct of combustion causes air molecules to expand which also causes the pressure to increase in these lubrication areas. If no ventilation system was employed to release this pressure, it would find the point of least resistance to escape, which could be oil seals…or worse.

To relieve this pressure, a system called Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV for short) is used. It is a closed system that takes the pressurized air and oil vapor from these two lubrication areas and introduces it back into the combustion chamber, by way of vacuum caused by the intake charge.

On the bottom end, most VTEC engines use a breather chamber located at the back of the block, underneath the intake manifold. The purpose of this breather chamber is to separate air from oil. The oil is returned to the crankcase while air is sucked into the intake charge. A valve called the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve controls the flow of this breather chamber valve to the intake manifold. The PCV valve is spring loaded and detects variations in pressure between the crankcase and intake manifold and opens or closes accordingly.

On the top end, the valve cover has a thirty degree fitting and the intake has an opposing thirty degree fitting, both of which are attached by a hose. As the intake charge creates a vacuum, oil vapors from within the valve cover are sucked into the intake stream for combustion again. This reuse of oil vapors is good for vehicle emmisions and consequently, the environment.

However, the factory system does not do an efficient job of filtering out oil from air. Oil mixed with higher octane gasoline will effectively lower the octane rating of the mixture. In simplified terms, octane is used to rate the resistance to knock of a substance. In high compression or high boost applications, this can be fatal to an engine. The detonation caused by lower octane combustion will eventually destroy and engine if not monitored and appropriately adjusted for. By the same token, removing this oil from the combustion process allows higher compression and higher boost applications to be run more reliably. What can be done to make the Honda breather chamber system more effective?

A catch can is a cylinderical device with an inlet fitting, outlet fitting, and internal baffeling which further filters out oil from air. Nicer catch cans can come with internal baffeling already in place; an external viewing glass to check the oil level; and sometimes with a drain valve which allows the user to drain oil from the catch can without having to remove it. If baffeling is not included with a kit, steel wool has been used in the past.

A typical Honda catch can set-up is added in addition to the existing breather cahmber system. The catch can inlet attaches to the PCV valve by a hose. The oil and air vapor is drawn into the catch can and the relatively clean air releases back into the intake charge via a fitting on the intake manifold. Reinforced clear hoses are typically used to connect the whole system. These hoses are used because the vacuum has been known to collapse hoses and because the clear hose is convenient to see that the system is working properly.

Re: Doing a PCV / Catch Can Write-up…tell me what you think!

I learned a lot. Thanks. And only one typo:

Originally posted by mojoGSR92
cahmber

Last paragraph 2nd line. Good info! :up:

Ben

I’ve already found a bunch of typos…this was a first rough draft. I’ll post up a revised version tonight.

Any typos found, technical aspects described incorrectly, any grammar errors, or anything in between…it is apprecited if you correct me. I am by no means an expert but wanted to do a write-up to teach myself and hopefully others about this.

nice job, mojo. clear, concise, and well written. i think the catch can is a great addition to our cars, but, would probably be overkill to a mostly stock motor. if you’re built (high compression) or turbo i think it’s a sound modification. regardless of this though, it’s still fairly cheap to do, so it certainly doesn’t hurt and keeps the internals of the intake manifold and ports cleaner.

keep us updated, please. :slight_smile:

just dont forget the chili peppers

Wow great job!! the only part I would change is
“(PCV) valve controls the flow of this breather chamber valve to the intake manifold. The PCV valve is spring loaded and detects variations in pressure between the crankcase and intake manifold and opens or closes accordingly.”
I think a PVC valve can be more aptly described as:
A check valve, meaning that permitts venting in only one direction
and it reacts to variations in pressure between the crankcase and intake manifold via a spring loaded valve.
Detect sounds like its merely a sensor and it just indicates flow.
well that was my 2cents
:up::clap:
If I hadn’t replaced my breather box’s seals I might be sporting a Maraschino Cherry jar:cool:

So what are the effects of not having either connected to the intake manifold… no hose connected to the crankcase vent and nor connected tofromt he head to the intake pipe? Besides being eissions illegal, how does that effect engine perfomance or what not?

thanks

Re: Doing a PCV / Catch Can Write-up…tell me what you think!

Originally posted by mojoGSR92
[B]

On the bottom end, most VTEC engines use a breather chamber located at the back of the block [/B]

nonVTEC motors have them too

On the top end, the valve cover has a thirty degree fitting and the intake has an opposing thirty degree fitting, both of which are attached by a hose. As the intake charge creates a vacuum, oil vapors from within the valve cover are sucked into the intake stream for combustion again. This reuse of oil vapors is good for vehicle emmisions and consequently, the environment.

This is not correct. Oil vapor is not sucked into the intake. The flow is in the opposit direction. Air is being sucked into the valve cover from the intake tube. This is the the beginning of the PCV system. Air is sucked in through the valve cover and flows down through the block to the crank case where it is evacuated by the vacuum in the intake manifold through the PCV valve and OEM breather tank. I’ve made a few posts on the boards about catch can systems, yo umight want to read up on them

http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16062&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13322&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13155&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13153&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30007&highlight=catch+can+PCV

Good write up on the subject overall :up:

Re: Re: Doing a PCV / Catch Can Write-up…tell me what you think!

nonVTEC motors have them too

B20’s do not have breather chambers…this is where this comment came from.

This is not correct. Oil vapor is not sucked into the intake. The flow is in the opposit direction. Air is being sucked into the valve cover from the intake tube. This is the the beginning of the PCV system. Air is sucked in through the valve cover and flows down through the block to the crank case where it is evacuated by the vacuum in the intake manifold through the PCV valve and OEM breather tank. I’ve made a few posts on the boards about catch can systems, yo umight want to read up on them

This is the one area of the article I was speculating on…argh. I was expecting to get this wrong unfortunately…

http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16062&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13322&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13155&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13153&highlight=catch+can+PCV
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30007&highlight=catch+can+PCV

As I said, I am far from an expert. Thanks for the constructive criticism and if anyone wants to post up an edited (read: technically correct version) of my write-up I would be very happy. I am simply writing an essay of sorts to learn it myself. I’m posting this up for constructive criticism so that that I don’t post information to others that is not correct. Thanks for the info Haberdasher, and I was actually specifically looking for you, among other people to correct any misinformation I might have posted up. Thanks, :up:

Good write up on the subject overall :up:

Thanks, pictures will accompany this write-up. :up:

The new and improved article. Tell me what you think:

In an engine, there are many pockets of air. Two pockets of air will be discussed in this article: the area between the valve cover and valve seals, and the area between the piston rings and oil pan. Within these two air pockets, oil is used to lubricate the moving parts of the engine. As the engine internals rotate, oil mixes with air and becomes oil vapor.

In a perfect world, these two lubrication areas would not pressurize. However, in real life compression leaks by valve seals and piston rings in what is called blow-by. Blow-by introduces pressure into the two pockets of air and oil (the head and the crankcase). In addition, heat from combustion causes air molecules to expand which also causes the pressure to increase in these two air pockets. If no ventilation system were employed to release this pressure, it would find the point of least resistance to escape, which could be through oil seals…or worse.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid12/p5ed1a75e4e0bbab77413431d72c78ffd/fe20e8dd.gif.orig.gif

To relieve this pressure, a system called the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) is used. It is a closed system that takes the pressurized oil vapor from these two lubrication areas and introduces it back into the combustion chamber, by way of vacuum that comes from the intake charge. It is necessary for the system to be a closed system, otherwise the vacuum will not work. Using what is commonly called a breather filter on your valve cover allows the system to be open to ambient air. The vacuum-driven PCV system will cease to work and this can damage an engine.

The valve cover has a thirty-degree fitting and the intake has an opposing thirty-degree fitting which are connected by a hose. Air is sucked into the valve cover from the intake tube. This intake tube air flows down through the block to the crankcase, where it makes its way to the Honda breather chamber. Most B-series engines use a baffled breather chamber located at the back of the block, underneath the intake manifold. The purpose of this breather chamber is to separate air from oil. The oil is returned to the crankcase while the air continues on to the PCV valve. The PCV valve contains a spring-loaded plunger. When the engine starts, the plunger in the PCV valve is lifted in proportion to intake manifold vacuum and air is drawn directly into the intake manifold. The process then starts all over again.

However, the factory system often can not always do an efficient job of filtering out oil from air. Modified engines with higher compression, turbochargers, or superchargers can be too much for the existing PCV system. As a result, oil mixed with higher-octane gasoline can effectively lower the octane rating of the mixture. In simplified terms, octane is used to rate the resistance to knock of a substance. In high compression or high boost applications, unexpectedly lowering the octane rating can cause detonation that is fatal to an engine if undetected. By the same token, removing this oil from the combustion process allows higher compression and higher boost applications to be run more reliably. What can be done to make the Honda breather chamber system more effective?

A catch can is typically cylindrical in shape and has an inlet fitting, outlet fitting, and internal baffling which further filters out oil from air. Nicer catch cans can come with internal baffling already in place; an external viewing glass to check the oil level; and sometimes come with a drain valve which allows the user to drain oil from the catch can without having to remove it. Brand names include Jaz, Cusco, and Moroso among others, but any container that is suitable to hold a vacuum, tapping in fittings, and the environment of an engine bay will work. If baffling is not included with a kit, the user will have to install a material to catch the oil as it goes through the catch can but which will not release free particles into the engine. I have heard of steel wool being used for a filtering medium, but the idea of steel wool bits floating around in an engine is sure to make an engine builder cringe.

A typical Honda catch can set-up is used in addition to the existing Honda breather chamber system. The catch can inlet attaches to the PCV valve by a hose. The oil and air vapor is drawn into the catch can and the relatively clean air releases back into the intake charge via an existing fitting on the intake manifold. Reinforced clear hoses are typically used to connect the whole system. These hoses are used because the vacuum has been known to collapse standard hoses and because the clear hose is convenient to view that the system is working properly.

Another variation of a Honda catch can set-up moves the PCV valve onto the catch-can itself.  The inlet comes from the Honda breather chamber and typically connects to the side of the catch-can.  A PCV valve is sealed onto the top of the catch can, and the outlet connects from the PCV valve to the existing intake manifold fitting.  A good write-up of this set-up can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/bretq/DIY_Oil_Catch_Can_instructions.html

:clap: now if theres anyone who still doesnt understand the system they deserve an elbow to the forehead

for a final touch, you can add arrows showing the airflow in this pic

archivethis

good job, I will definately be reading this over and implenting a similar system during my rebuild!

looks good :up:

You want to know the funniest thing about this whole write-up? There is no real motive. I wanted to learn about it, and I figured the best way to fully grasp the concept is write well enough about it to be able to teach others.

This will look nicely on the information part of my new webpage that’s in the making. :slight_smile:

BTW, the pictures that I posted up here were just examples of what I was going to put in the final HTML page. I’m going to take Helm’s graphics with red arrows showing flow, and maybe I’ll take some pictures of people’s real set-ups to demonstrate what it should look like.

I have to many write-ups going on right now…the power steering has been permanently removed and I don’t even have those pictures uploaded yet…ach! :think: