ohhhh…the irony :hmm:
when you can show me some facts and numbers that a B16a is a better platform to build with, then I welcome the challenge…
But i posted the numbers from my brother’s B16a compared to my B18a1 and I fail to see how a B16a has more potential than a B18a1 (i’m not sure if you saw the post).
or with a fully built B18a1 and 141lb-ft of torque at 4500rpm, i don’t even need to drop a gear 
(well…not likely, but i don’t see why you can’t drop a gear with a B18a, either)
but the extra torque is nice to have
lol that reminded me of this fool on the freeway in an automatic eclipse trying to race me. this is when my b16 was stock with the exception of a big muffler i didnt have to drop gear either haha i was beating him in 5th gear 
How do come off calling us thick-headed? We’ve shown you facts, dyno charts and proof that b16 is NOT superior, it doesn’t have any more potential to speak of, and it’s just too small, yet you still refuse to admit that the b18a is just as good as the b16. You’re the one being thick-headed.
Rather than coming on and admitting that you didn’t really realize the b18 had so much potential, and conceding that the b16a isn’t superior, you still cling to this idea…
Maybe I can clear this up, is the b16a better from a technical/engineering standpoint? Yes, it is a much more advanced engine. Now, is it better than the b18a from a speed/performance standpoint, no, it’s JUST too small! If was bigger, say 1.8l it would be pretty good…oh wait that’d be a c5!
no, there isn’t one. i wish i would have gotten a vafc, but i found a killer deal on the afcII so i thought i couldn’t pass it up. then i find out a week later that it doesn’t have as many adjustment points as a vafc. so i’m thinking no big deal, wrong. get her up on the dyno and start tuning just to find out that there is a nice rich lump right in the gap of tuning points :roll:
man, i love threads like these. they do a good job of separating the people who know shit and the people who don’t. rockstar, it’s funny that you didn’t learn from knowledge420’s experience with trying to outtalk people who know more than you. give it up man. either way, my guess is this will be locked any time now and we won’t have to read anymore of your bs.
is the SAFC-2 different than the SAFC-1 in that you can’t manually choose whare you want trhe points? For example, I could put all my points at 3000-4600rpm’s one every 100rpms if I wanted to. So can’t you just spread you points out in the lower rpms(make 4 into 3), and add an extra one at 4400rpms???
i had no idea that was possible. i’ll have to look into that. thanks a lot :rockon:
Eclypz. Just remember that you have hit the end of the line with the tuning of that b18 of yours. You’d have to jump to turbo to get any more power. Secondly you can not forget that you have more displacment in the first place. So off course your going to have more torque in your engine then in your brothers b16, it’s only natural. But with a little more work to his engine he will have more hp then your b18.
Did you say that you had itr or ctr pistons in your b18? That means that your messing around with your compression. I just want to make sure I’m not confused here.
once again, it doesn’t matter if his brother’s b16 comes out with a little more hp in the end, it’s never going to reach 140lbs/ft tq unless it’s boosted.
That doesn’t matter. He will be just fine when his hp number’s increase.
torque gets you off the line faster, it doesn’t power you the rest of the way.
.
i don’t have time to read the entire thread, but, i’ve owned both motors…as i’m sure nuff people have stated the same. anyway, if the ls motor has its stock tranny vs. the 16 with any of the short geared trannies (with the exception of the y1, which is still better than the ls) its a close race, but, i’ve modded both of them…and i can tell you that when i ported my ls head, bought some Gude cams that didn’t idle, gude chip (8k redline), ported im, 3 angle valve job and shaved head .033" (roughly 10.2/1 c.r.) and J1 tranny, the sheer tq was 
incredible. i had to laugh at my old b16. no joke. i love vtec and own a b20v, lsv and gsr motors. and nothing makes up for that added displacement. i just recently removed a 16 from my ef for a b20bv and i know for a fact that with over 2 full points less compression (i had the head shaved on the 16) the added 400cc’s or so is too temtpting to resist. the statement has been said for what seems like a lifetime for me…there is no replacement for displacement. end of fuckin’ story. peace
i’ve always heard “torque wins races, horsepower sells products”
i think somebody used to have this as their sig actually :think:
Also, if your saying that making the B16 a 1.8L consider the money when a B18 comes that way. Also you can always stroke a B18 to. The make every single thing that they make for a b16 for a b18 but the b18 starts out better so basically if you had the money to buy everything saying that your going NA then the b18 will take it down. Also, props to nas-TO-nos. Nicely put
i suggest you read my post again…with your eyes open…
BOTH MOTORS HAVE THE SAME MODS.
Yes, i have ITR pistons, but guess what? My brother’s B16a also has pistons. In fact, he’s running more compression than me.
I have Crower 404s, he has Toda Bs
I have a Skunk2 IM, he has a Skunk2 intake manifold
I have ITR Comptech header, he has a HKS header
I have Hondata S200, he has Hondata Stage2
I have Skunk2 Cam gears, he has Jun Cam gears
I have a RSR exhaust, he has a Greddy
All the machining work is the same (except the b16a has a 3 angle valve job and I don’t)
you get the point?
The only difference in our cars is the suspension, which has no relevance here.
So if I’ve reached the end of the line, that means my brother’s B16a has also reached the end of the line because our motors are built up exactly the same (with different brand parts).
And just to let you know, there is plenty more that I can do, but I won’t:
Crower 405
3 angle valve job
P&P
PR3 pistons
I’m not doubting the fact that he can kick my ass down a 1/4 mile, but that’s only because his car is 700kg, where as mine is 1100kg.
let me put it real simple for you:
B16a CRX
JDM b16a motor (fully rebuilt top to bottom)
Toda Spec B camshafts
Jun Cam gears
Port matched Skunk2 Intake Manifold
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
EG Fuel Rail
Prelude Injectors
SRR Oil catch can with Steel braided lines
Integra Type R valve springs
Integra Type R retainers
0.5mm oversize PR3 Pistons
3 angle valve job
knife-edged, balanced and lightened crankshaft
fully balanced bottom end
JDM S1 (J1) cable transmission (integra type r gearing)
Energy Suspension Shifter bushing kit
Redshift mount kit with poly urethane bushings
Z-Speed short shifter
T1R lightweight battery
T1R earthing kit
Exedy Organic clutch kit
Spoon Flywheel
Spoon Reservoir cover
68 mm taper bored ITR throttle body
Custom 3" short ram intake
B&M Fuel Pressure Regulator
B&M Fuel Pressure Gauge
Spoon Vtec Controller
Hondata Stage 2 ECU - dynotuned
JDM HKS 4-2-1 header
Greddy SP catback exhaust with test pipe
NGK spark plug wires
NGK copper spark plugs
B18A1 INTEGRA
Engine:
Crower 404 race cams (300/290 duration, 0.445/0.435 lift)
Crower dual titanium valve springs
Crower titanium retainers
Skunk2 Cam gears
Skunk2 intake manifold
AEM Fuel Rail
B&M adjustable FPR
Spoon Throttle body (70mm)
Custom 3" CAI (Converted to short ram for winter)
Comptech ITR Race Header
RSR full cat-back
Custom straight pipe
Balanced & blue-printed bottom end
0.25mm oversize P73-a0 pistons
Knifed, lightened and balanced crank
ACT stage1 clutch
ACT 8lb flywheel
JDM S1 transmission swap
MSD SCI ignition
MSD Blaster coil
NGK 8mm Wires
MSD distributor cap
Spoon Reservoir sock
Fluidyne Aluminum race radiator
Fluidyne 16lb radiator cap
SRR Oil Catch Can
STR Cam plug seal
Greddy Timing Belt
amen.
you just showed how mcuh you really know, not much. Torque and Horsepower are not two seperate things, horsepower is a direct result of the amount of torque being produced.
In other words, if the LS is making more torque from 5000-7000rpm, guess what?? It’s also making more horsepower!!!
Races aren’t won using PEAK numbers, in a 14second 1/4 mile your only making oeak power for 1 or 2 seconds. What wins races is CUMALATIVE HORSEPOWER, this means the engine with most horsepower under the curve for the entire powerband, whatever it’s powerband happens to be.
The reason a 140hp LS w/ b16 tranny, can run the same times as a 160hp b16, is because from 5500-6500rpm the LS is making more torque AND more horsepower than the b16, then from 6500-8000 the b16 make more torque AND horsepower, the result is 140hp engine that is every bit as fast as a 160hp engine. Torque matters.
Just a little evidence that torque wins races(when comparing similar powerplants/weight/tramnsmission etc etc)
Here’s a modded ITR making 176whp, compared to an LS making 164whp, the torque of the LS causes it to make more power than the ITR everywhere, except the last 1000rpms.
These cars HAVE actually raced, and the LS pulled away from the ITR.
HP
TQ
we’re not getting anywhere with this b18 n b16 debate. both motors have their own weakness n power. it is up to the driver on which motor suits him/her the best for their driving styles. so lets try to move forward. this debate has been going on for the last 5 years. so let’s not beat a dead horse.
:werd:
I have raced a stock B16 Si and a modded one. I won both races. I even beat the modded one on a 2nd gear roll. so for right now i say build your LS and destroy all. Current mods I have intake, catback exhaust to dynomax muffler 2.25, chipped ecu with Dinan program thanks to BR. I dont even have headers yet, so my car is practically stock. But my friends 93 civic hatch with a 99 LS spanks RSX Type-S for some reason, and he also beat a 2000 type R. So the LS is my choice.
Hopefully soon it will be bored to a 1.9 or 2.0 and turboed. Cant wait for that.