Ok we’ve got a bunch of threads simmering about building LS’s, LS/VTECs etc all for the budget g2er’s like me. How’s this for an idea: Do a “ghetto” LS/VTEC setup for the summer, and then next winter, build the bottom end…
AKA This summer:
Used B16A head
New valvesprings, valveseals
Port the head, get a nice valvejob
OBD-I VTEC ECU
All necessary fittings
GSR Oil Pump
New Timing belt
This way next summer I will have new toys and some more power, and as long as I don’t rev like a moron, I’ll make some more power for the time being. Come winter, I rebuild the bottom end and then the following year will have a fully built engine.
I figure this way I can spend the same I had in mind on building my LS, get similar if not better results for the time being, and the next year I can build the rest of the engine. Why not do it all at once? $$$$ Why don’t I save my money and wait 2 years? I’m IMPATIENT!!! Let’s hear it…
keep stock redline & it’ll be fine. i’d say you’ll have similiar performance to the modded ls & then still have lots of room for improvement later. remember just bolting on a vtec head will raise your compression some, & you will notice the difference.
Yep that’s what I’m hoping for. My intitial posts on several boards were asking if a vtec head on a ls bottom BELOW 7200RPM would produce more power than a cammed ls head. Add porting & valvejob to both heads and I would guess the vtec head should flow better and thus create more power along with its higher CR.
that’s almost exactly what i was hoping to do with my car. just put the head on itself, drive the car for the summer (not revving past my b18a redline) then when more funds become available, then rebuild the bottom end.
buy a spare ls block (you can pick one up for about $200-$300). Slowing work on building it up. When its done you have two options: 1) swap it in with your stock head 2) keep it sittin there for the rest of the vtec stuff to be bought
that way you don’t have any downtime, and you can take as long as you wish to build the bottom end.
But unfortunatley when you do it that way, you get no benefits for the 1st year, and you have a 2 year project on your hands which i am not interested in. And I don’t really find it makes sense buying a b18A1 block. If I am gonna spend any money on a block it’d be on a b20 or a b18c. Doing an LS/VTEC that way kinda defeats the purpose of LS/VTEC and might as well just be a B18C1,C5 or CR/VTEC buildup. Don’t you see??
i don’t think so at all. You can easily find a b18a block for $200 (i found many). Buying this is only so you won’t have downtime while you build it up. When you’re done you can sell your stock one for $200-$300, and not be in the hole at all.
buying a b20 or b18c block is gonna cost you $800-$1200, so i don’t really even see a comparison.
also, you do get benefit. You can throw in the built b18a block while you save for the vtec parts. You’ll have a lot higher compression and a more balanced engine, in total you’ll get a few hp more.
and really unless you build the block and get your ecu chipped the advantages of a vtec head are gonna be very little.
stick a vtec head on your stock block, dont rev to the moon and back, and you’ll get results now, i know personally i dont have the patience to do a 2 year buildup project, if i did, id get a gsr block, and a b16a head for poorman’s ITR setup.
The B18C1 head actually flows better than the B16/B17/Type-R head. The manifold is kinda crappy though.
I would also question whether or not you really will make more power with a stock VTEC head as opposed to a cammed NOTEC head. You can make 155 whp with Crower 404s, i/h/e and stock compression. That’s about the same as what a stock B18C1 puts down. I personally would build up the bottom end, drive around on that, and then build up a GSR head with a skunk2 intake manifold.
where did you hear that the b18c1 head flows better? I always here conflicting stories about this. some say the pr3 is better, some say the b18c1 is better. Is there any solid info on flow characteristics?
i find it hard to believe that honda would have put the pr3 head on the itr if it is in inferior head. Maybe there is something i’m missing?
Stock LSVTEC’s as I posted in another thread in this forum can also make 155whp. And 2nd, I don’t want 404s, 403’s is the lumpiest I’m wiling to go. And I really don’t understand how you guys could possibly think a stock vtec head could not make good power!!!
stock LS CR is 9.2:1
imagine a build bottom end with 11:1
even with a stock LS head, you’re gonna get more HP.
having a b16a head with the stock LS bottom end, you’re not gonna gain much cuz on the b16a engine the CR is 10.2:1 or 10.4:1(jdm) and i believe that is one of the reasons it gets more HP than the b18a… the vtec helps but i dont think it does as much as some would say.
Originally posted by 93integraRS
[B]something to think about…
stock LS CR is 9.2:1
imagine a build bottom end with 11:1
even with a stock LS head, you’re gonna get more HP.
having a b16a head with the stock LS bottom end, you’re not gonna gain much cuz on the b16a engine the CR is 10.2:1 or 10.4:1(jdm) and i believe that is one of the reasons it gets more HP than the b18a… the vtec helps but i dont think it does as much as some would say. [/B]
A B16 head on a B18A block raises compression…
You are downplaying the fact that the B16 makes 30 more hp with 200cc less displacement?? Haha…
vtec is the equivalent of adding lumpy cams to a nonvtec motor… but the vtec motor will remain a well mannered one at low rpms as opposed to a non vtec engine with radical cams.
"the vtec helps but i dont think it does as much as some would say. "
hehe… thats like saying
“cams help, but not as much as some would say”.
Of course the higher c/r is one of the reasons an engine makes more power… but you forget that afterall said and done, its a smaller displacement engine.
91IntegGS: I know the B18C1 head has bigger valves & ports which in stock form will outflow a pr3 b16a1 head. But apparantly when you start working the pr3 and it’s far superior… Again though, that’s what I’ve “heard” so it might mean d*ck!!
B18C1 head has 41.6cc chambers, PR3 head has 42.7cc chambers. Given the same piston you’ll get more compression out of the B18C1 head. But now that I think about it, the PR3 head probably provides the ability to machine in more quench area then the B18C1 head so you’ll be able to run higher compression overall.
So…
If you’re not planning on doing headwork a B18C1 head will net you a bit more power, most likely safely. If you’re going all out then a PR3 head will provide a bit more ability to run stratospheric compression ratios.