I thought I should start a thread on my new setup as you dont generally see DA’s with meaty setups and I would have killed for more info when researching it. After racing on many setups and seeing what national level drivers were using I decided I wanted a staggered setup with more rubber up front. I opted for:
15x9 +35 Konig Dial-In wheel (12.8 lbs) with a 5mm spacer up front with a 225/45/15 tire and a 15x8 +25 wheel (12 lbs) in the back with a 205/50/15 tire. Fitment was perfect after the spacer in the front and rolled fenders. No pulling and no rubbing.
Ok onto my install. Tires were on backorder so it took awhile to get everything together. Got my new ARP studs and new wheel bearings in. Autox’d on the setup last weekend and friggin love it. The sharpness of the new 225 Rival S on a 9" wheel is unreal. If you currently use a 225 tire on anything less than a 9" you need to bump up to a 9"… trust me.
Im lowered with about 2" inches of clearance to the front fender. With the 5mm space I have zero rubbing on full lock, even pushing it during racing there wasnt any contact. I couldnt be happier. Here are some pics and a video of my run this past weekend…
Here is a side by side of a 205/50/15 on a 7" wheel next to the 225/45/15 on the 9" wheel.
The response on this setup is fantastic. This mod bumped me into SMF and I destroyed everyone else in the class by over a second. There were several fiesta ST’s, focus ST’s, and also a supercharged and turbo’d crx. …keep in mind Im all motor and just left Street Touring, so my car is strapped on power but makes up for it in the handling department.
Hope this helps anyone looking to go to a bigger wheel/tire setup.
What are your camber settings? Looks like you don’t have much from these pics. And how much did you roll the fenders? From a performance standpoint that’s a lot of rubber! From an aesthetic standpoint it looks too low of an offset for me. I felt that way about my car too but I’m slowly warming up to the look
My setup is currently 225-45-15 Rivals on 15x8 +25 TE37SL’s.
Front:
Fenders are rolled a tiny, tiny bit but you may even get them to fit without (mine were rolled prior to switching to this setup). Fender liners are still in place and I haven’t experienced any rubbing yet.
Camber is around -4 deg
Rear:
I’m running DC2 trailing arms which may have an effect on fitment
Rear fenders required that I cut out part of the “lip” of the fender. You might be able to roll them, but for me cutting a few mm off was the better choice. Prior to trimming the fenders there was less than 1mm of clearance between the lip of the fender. Outside profile of the fender remains untouched.
Camber is around -2.5 deg
Unfortunately I don’t have any high quality pics at the moment
Looks good Colin! I only have about 2.2* camber in the front. I do agree on the offset. Im planning on using a bigger spacer soon. Maybe a 10mm or larger. My main concern initially was playing it safe to fit without destroying fenders, now that isnt a problem I can start pushing that wheel out more. Also my fenders are rolled flat. I still have my fender liners in too.
Looks like you could easily fit a 9" under there with your camber, that is if you cared to go wider. The sharpness it puts on the sidewall flex is fantastic. Grassroots did a few tests and confirmed the 205 was faster on a 8" wheel than a 225 and the 225 won overall on the 9"… not surprising though. That Rival sidewall is very solid so I almost settled for a 8" because its perfectly square but the extra stretch the 9" gives is amazing. Turn-in is very sharp and unexpected.
[QUOTE=Boostpyro90;2327699]Looks good Colin! I only have about 2.2* camber in the front. I do agree on the offset. Im planning on using a bigger spacer soon. Maybe a 10mm or larger. My main concern initially was playing it safe to fit without destroying fenders, now that isnt a problem I can start pushing that wheel out more. Also my fenders are rolled flat. I still have my fender liners in too.
Looks like you could easily fit a 9" under there with your camber, that is if you cared to go wider. The sharpness it puts on the sidewall flex is fantastic. Grassroots did a few tests and confirmed the 205 was faster on a 8" wheel than a 225 and the 225 won overall on the 9"… not surprising though. That Rival sidewall is very solid so I almost settled for a 8" because its perfectly square but the extra stretch the 9" gives is amazing. Turn-in is very sharp and unexpected.[/QUOTE]
I def like this post. Colin if you can post more pics of your car on the te37 sl would be great I’m running the same wheel and tire size combo but want to see more fitment pics as my car is still on jack stands
[QUOTE=Boostpyro90;2327699]Looks good Colin! I only have about 2.2* camber in the front. I do agree on the offset. Im planning on using a bigger spacer soon. Maybe a 10mm or larger. My main concern initially was playing it safe to fit without destroying fenders, now that isnt a problem I can start pushing that wheel out more. Also my fenders are rolled flat. I still have my fender liners in too.
Looks like you could easily fit a 9" under there with your camber, that is if you cared to go wider. The sharpness it puts on the sidewall flex is fantastic. Grassroots did a few tests and confirmed the 205 was faster on a 8" wheel than a 225 and the 225 won overall on the 9"… not surprising though. That Rival sidewall is very solid so I almost settled for a 8" because its perfectly square but the extra stretch the 9" gives is amazing. Turn-in is very sharp and unexpected.[/QUOTE]
Do you expect to see some gains from widening the stance in front? Would be worth it if there’s significant performance gains, but ugh, the look… :down: I read that GRM mag with the tire test and it was interesting. I’m not looking to change wheels though and a little extra width is not really the weak link anyway. And I think for my series I’m limited to 8" anyway.
Sorry, no additional pics at the moment. The wheels have been on the car for about a year but the car has only left the garage once in that past year since I have higher priorities at the moment. And to really put the cherry on top that last time I drove the car someone ran into me so now I have a lot of damage that needs to be repaired before I can drive it around again
Despite how visually appealing it is, I was just saying it performs better. Im not basing that on the GRM article, just from taking to other drivers who have been racing for 10x’s longer than I have and have experimented with many setups.
With that said, it probably depends a lot on what type of racing you do. I primarily autox so that extra reduction in sidewall flex means precious time. Quicker transitions, slaloms, and sweepers means less tire roll and quicker response during transitions. I used the 225 rival on a 7.5" wheel last year because it was the class limit and my 205 performed the same. I was disappointed and didn’t get what I expected out of it so I went back to the 205.
If your road racing or hitting an actual track, your setup should fit your needs. I was just offering my experience and specs for anyone interested, didn’t mean to start sumthin. Plus for me it was a matter of spending $10 extra for both wheels to get 1" wider… might not make sense for someone needing to buy 2 new wheels.
Nah man, not starting anything. I realize the wheel width adds performance, just doesn’t make sense for me. What I was wondering if the extra track width was actually going to do anything - since you mentioned you were going to add more spacers in the front. For me I also want a square setup to keep things simple - same size wheels, same size tires on all corners means costs are less and I need to keep fewer spares. And for me none of this matters all that much because what I really need is seat time!
[QUOTE=Snails;2327728]there have been many tests that show a square* tire setup isnt as stable as a slightly stretched setup
when i had 9" 949 racings on my hatch the slightly stretched setup was alot better than a more square setup on an 8"
i wish i could find some 9" wide wheels locally… maybe ill hunt for a spare set soon
ps great pics and info, i definitely prefer the track look more than the stance look[/QUOTE]
When I said “square” I was referring to tire/wheel sizing from front to back, not tire stretch. Square = same size wheels/tires at each corner. Staggered = different sized wheels/tires in the front compared to the rear.
That makes perfect sense Colin. Once again considering I only had to spend $10 for the extra 1" it made sense for me, plus I had 4 205 Rivals from my previous setup I can use for my rears. So despite not being able to swap from side to side (which you can’t with the Rival anyway) I don’t need to rotate front to rear since I have 4 205s I can switch out on the back when they wear out and new 225’s on the front.
To your question, I definitely think more offset helps within reason. Camber aside, A +25 offset, I would think, should keep the car from rolling over as easily on the tire than say a +40 offset. At least in my head it makes sense. Like doing side lunges when working out, the further you step out the faster and harder you can plant your foot than if you kept them in closer. If the offset was less (or closer to the car) I would imagine weight shifting side to side would be upset easier. Is that a proven fact? Far from it… just think it makes sense it my head. But what do I know, I drive a Honda. Lol Also need to take into account an aggressive offset means you need more room to clear cones… small margin, but still there. …I have no idea. Haha
Seems like most National level racers have aggressive offsets… might need to pick some brains on statistics. I’ll do whatever Andy Hollis tells me too. LOL
Do you plan on picking up multiple sets of wheels/tires?
I switched to a massive setup over the winter and considered running different width front to rear (245/10 F 225/9 R) but for now went with the square setup for ease of rotating/flipping to get the most out of a set of tires. My logic is that it should be easier to tune the suspension to work with the square set up than it would be to manage a bunch of wheels and tires.
No suspension parts have been changed since last season (just an alignment) and my initial impression is that the balance has gone from loose to road car understeer…
I have my DD wheels/tires, my new race setup and my old 15x7 race wheels.
I wasnt too worried about rotating tires and whatnot, I did that for several years and finally wanted to do something more aggressive without concern about maximizing tire life… If i drove a fat evo, then maybe but between the weight of our cars and how well these Rivals wear I dont foresee going through tires like my buddys evo.
I do have to say, my DA rotates very well and its also very easy to control when it steps out. I often have to dial out oversteer. Theres nothing I hate more than understeer so that was my main focus for a long time. Also have great lift throttle oversteer.
That sounds like a lot of fun and exactly how i would have described my car last season. Used to be able to point the car in any direction i needed it go in. Although it was hairy above 140km/h. Now i have to be much further up the road (mentally) to keep it moving and it doesn’t rotate around tight low speed turns.
I’ll probably play with spacers up front next time out. Possibly throw some 225/9 out back. Spring rates will have to wait.
The goal is to make it crazy loose under 80km and keep it nailed down using a wing at higher speed.
Can’t believe a 225/9 fits stock fenders…would have never guessed it. Looks good too
As far as spacers are concerned…they can be used to fine tune balance but you shouldn’t go too crazy. The increased track helps but it also lowers the wheel rate and messes up scrub radius. I’ve used some wild offsets (all with original suspension geometry…) and while it handled great the steering feel sucked. Split friction surfaces were a nightmare too.
[QUOTE=Boostpyro90;2327699]Looks good Colin! I only have about 2.2* camber in the front. I do agree on the offset. Im planning on using a bigger spacer soon. Maybe a 10mm or larger. My main concern initially was playing it safe to fit without destroying fenders, now that isnt a problem I can start pushing that wheel out more. Also my fenders are rolled flat. I still have my fender liners in too.
Looks like you could easily fit a 9" under there with your camber, that is if you cared to go wider. The sharpness it puts on the sidewall flex is fantastic. Grassroots did a few tests and confirmed the 205 was faster on a 8" wheel than a 225 and the 225 won overall on the 9"… not surprising though. That Rival sidewall is very solid so I almost settled for a 8" because its perfectly square but the extra stretch the 9" gives is amazing. Turn-in is very sharp and unexpected.[/QUOTE]
I’d check available tire sizes/prices before buying 16’s. There may be some options out there but from what I’ve seen the options for 16’s really pale in comparison to those options in 15’s (both wheel and tire sizes). At least when you’re talking about high performance setups.
Plus for me it was a matter of spending $10 extra for both wheels to get 1" wider… might not make sense for someone needing to buy 2 new wheels.
