Been considering a non-vtec NA b20 for my car. I have considered using a vtec head but there is just more stuff that can go wrong with it. Besides I think 200 whp is achievable without vtec with the right stuff for about the same price. So, on with the questions:
Who makes some good pistons and connecting rods for the b20 to raise the CR?
What would be the best IM to use for this application?
I think as far as the head goes, I can use parts for the b18a/b, correct? In which case, I was thinking of getting at least the crower 403’s possibly 404’s. Is this a good choice in cams? If not what are some similarly priced cams you may feel are better?
TIA g2ers.
not real sure on advise but i can confirm the fact that the b20 crank and b18 crank have the same part number. got that word from honda dealer today
Check this… its not my site, nor do I know the person who the car/site belongs to, but this is the nastiest stock internal non vtec I have seen as of yet.
http://www.hxpower.homestead.com
170hp and 143lbs at the wheels with a B20Z with 62404’s.
Pretty damn impressive if you ask me… really makes me want to rethink if I vtec is worth the extra trouble on this motor…
Regarding the IM question, I imagine the skunk2 ITR copy for LS heads is the way to go…
Stock JDM B20B dyno’ed 140hp and 135lbs at the wheels with NO bolt ons.
-Thomas
Finally!! Someone that wants to do a NA non-vtec b20z swap! Well I’ve been researchin a bit and I love the numbers I have been seeing. I mean consistent 140whp, you can’t go wrong!
For the heads you can use your exisiting b18a/b head or the b20 head (its the exact same thing as b18a/b) but you can’t use the stock b20 IM because its too high. So you can use our b18a/b intake manifold with ease. I would use the 94+ IM personally.
As for cams, 404 are really nice, but you sacrifice some idle ruffness. If I do this, I want to get the 403’s mainly cuz I don’t like the 404’s idle.
If you are going to do it right, I would blueprint and balance as well. Might as well if you want the engine to last. And you could safely raise the redline to about 8K and fuel cut off at 7800 I think (don’t quote me, seen mixed #'s for this.) But I believe the b20’s crank can be safely run at around those numbers, but I still would only raise to maybe a 7500 redline. But then again seeing 142whp from that guys civic and non raised redline, u don’t have to.
You can use othe IM too, but what for. Save the money to do other things. You could extrude hone the b18 IM too. P&P would be good too if you get valve springs and retainers and blueprinted the head. You want to do this to get consistency from the engine -making the same hp/tq numbers out of each cylinder and airflow is the same too.
Use a b20Z block too, the b20X are crap. The prelude ones have leakage problems, but you might be able to get away with it since they will be alot cheaper than a crv block.
But if you do this, email me and send pics!! Much props to the NA nonvtec peeps. Vtec’s so overrated. And you gotta love the nonvtec low end tq compared to vtec equipped engines.
I think someone on the board has a NA nonvtec turbo charged too. Forget his name but I think he live either in the bay or southern cali. Have fun
Wow, thanks for the enthusiasm. This is something I’ve been thinking about on and off for a while actually. I’d definitely be going with the crv engine not the crappy prelude engine of the 80’s and early 90’s. I love the b20z’s numbers. It’s rated at 146hp and 133tq but with basic bolt ons you can get those numbers at the wheels! I want to use the b20 head so I can sell my engine complete so I can get more money for it. Also I want to take my time taking apart the b20 and installing everything I want into it before installing the engine into my car. Just a few quick ??'s about your reply.
1~What is entailed in balancing and blueprinting an engine? I hear this a lot and truthfully it sounds expensive but every quick car I’ve seen has a b & b engine.
2~Why would the redline be after the fuel cut off?
3~I thought the b20’s didn’t have very good cranks and because the engine wasn’t made to rev very high. But if it’s good enough for 8000 rpm then that’s about as high as I would ever want to go.
One last thing. I know I can use my tranny with it but I was thinking of upgrading it for something with closer gearing. I was thinking along the lines of the jdm ys1 w/ lsd. I know I want lsd for all the torque this engine will have and at least an upgraded clutch. What do you think would be a good combo because maybe this engine will have so much low end power I won’t need gearing any closer than my rs tranny and I can get a better clutch and lsd.
Wow, long post. Sorry bout that. Thanks for any input.
balance and blueprinting is like making sure that all surfaces are smooth and when turning, the shaft doesn’t vibrate. This way you will have a more precisly balance crank to have a higher redline. Again I’m not definately sure what the highest redline is, but say if you have at 8K and a 7600-7800 fuel cutoff, you won’t get to the 8K and not funk shieza up. In my b18a I accidently put it in 2nd gear for a few seconds while going 70MPH. Well I’m sure I went to about 10K rpm and almost pissed in my pants.
As for trannies, I would put something of the gsr-type tranny with a 5th ls gear. Then that way you can have faster times on the track, but the regular gas mileage of the b20z/b18b. The JDM ys1 is from which car? vtec? I am ill informed on the tranny’s always get the letters mixed up. So I just give up with it.
Yes the ys1 is from the jdm g2 xsi or something. I know it’s the vtec model. I don’t think I’d personally do the 5th gear tranny swap because 95% of the time I’m commuting through town in 2nd or 3rd gear so it’s not really worth it. Hmm, it sounds like b&bing the engine is gonna be a good idea. Any idea if this is an expensive task and if it’s one I can get just about any mechanic to do?
As far as the crank is conserned, I may just search out the all-illusive b17a crank cuz it gives an ideal rod to stroke ratio but they are crazy expensive from what I’ve seen. Do you think it would be worth it?
The b17a crank is only good for turbo applications. As for going non-vtec b20z, I’m planning on doing the same. However I’m planning on first doing a lot of headwork on by b18a1 and then if I’m still unhappy with the power and have the cash, I will buy a b20z shortblock or longblock and sell my b18a1 with a b20z head which is basically the same thing.
I wanna go anti vtec just for fun, plus it’s cheaper cause I already have a b18a1, so I am gonna do with what I got!
Aside from not having to mess with wiring, why would you guys want to do that setup. It wouldn’t have as many issues as a LS/Vtec b/c the block is already setup for Vtec, I have a friend who has a B20/GSR head in his civic VX and he has no idea why people have problems with that combo. To restate, he has had zero problems and around 200whp. I’m not trying to antagonize you, I’m just curious.
Well there are a lot of reasons. One is I don’t have to get a new ECU. Another is if I had vtec I would want a closer geared tranny to take advantage of it where as without vtec I’d be content with my ls tranny. I don’t have to do any machining work to the head or block. Also VTEC parts are a lot more expensive than non-VTEC parts. Cams for instance are about half the price for name brands. Besides I just think you don’t have to have vtec, FI or nitrous to get 200whp out of a b20. Maybe I’ll be albe to prove it someday.
Originally posted by whiteyg2RS
Well there are a lot of reasons. One is I don’t have to get a new ECU. Another is if I had vtec I would want a closer geared tranny to take advantage of it where as without vtec I’d be content with my ls tranny. I don’t have to do any machining work to the head or block. Also VTEC parts are a lot more expensive than non-VTEC parts. Cams for instance are about half the price for name brands. Besides I just think you don’t have to have vtec, FI or nitrous to get 200whp out of a b20. Maybe I’ll be albe to prove it someday.
Those are my exact reasons for going b20z.
Originally posted by jonsteR
[B]
Those are my exact reasons for going b20z. [/B]
So are you saying you’ve already done it? I’d really like to know what all you’ve done to the b20 and any mods you had to do to your car when swapping it in. Like did you run into any problems? I’m most curious about if you replaced the stock pistons and what brand you got? Do you know where I can find both higher compression and lower compression pistons? Thanks.
Yes there’s a b20 in my car right now. It’s exactly like the LS motor, all that needed to be moved over is the IM and distributor. But i think you know that already. I didn’t do my swap cause i didn’t have any free time but the shop said it was totally easy and did it in 6-7 hours. They reused everything that was on the car already with the longblock.
The engine only had 7k miles on it when it was put in so there’s no need for any internal modifications. Am running stock b20 and pretty happy with it.
I think the only pistons right now that are available for the b20 is endyn and JE. So probably contact them for specs.
hey, im pretty new at the engine stuff so i dont know much about it all. But tell me if im right here. If i get a B20z block i could just put my B18a head on it and still use the ecu and tranny for my b18a. If i could do that what kind of hp and torque would i be getting out of it. thanks for any info
Originally posted by 92 GS no R(damn
hey, im pretty new at the engine stuff so i dont know much about it all. But tell me if im right here. If i get a B20z block i could just put my B18a head on it and still use the ecu and tranny for my b18a. If i could do that what kind of hp and torque would i be getting out of it. thanks for any info
Well you can use your tranny and ECU with the b20z block no problem. That’s what I plan on doing. I don’t really understand your reasoning for using your b18a head though since it’s not much different than the b20 head. It will just make for more down time for your car. The only thing I would recommend replacing(and you have to replace this) is the IM because the one on the b20 is pretty big and doesn’t allow room for your hood to close. So you can either use your b18a IM or do like I probably will do and get a skunk2 or ITR intake manifold. HTH.
the reason i would want to use the head of my b18a is because at www.jspecjdm.net they are selling B20 long blocks for 850 so i figure if i can just put my b18a head on b20 block it would save me some money over a complete swap.
A longblock should include the head unless they tell you it doesn’t.
$850 ain’t a bad price. I’ll have to look into that.
oh i didnt realize that long block included the head (that shows how much i know about engines) anyways so i could just drop that in and use my ecu tranny and harness i have right now? or what all would i need. and i know they have 146hp, at the crank i think, but how much torque? just trying to figure out if that swap would be worth it.
Yeah you can use your tranny and ECU. The only thing you have to worry about is the intake manifold like I mentioned earlier. Jonster already did this swap so you can ask him any specific little things about the swap but he said it was a very simple swap.
Also the b20z has 146hp and 133ft-lbs of torque. It makes you wonder why people are so crazy about the b16a with only 14 more hp and 22ft-lbs less torque. To each their own I guess.
hey does anyone know the engine specifications on the b20z??
Here is what I have so far:
[b]Engine—Year------CR-----Displacement—HP/Torque----Bore(mm)—
b18a1----90-93—9.2:1-----1834.77-------130-140/121-----81
b18ba----94±----9.2:1-----1834.77-------142-140/127-----81
b20a3----90-91—9.1:1-----1958.14-------104/111----------81
b20a5----88-89—9.0:1-----1958.14-------135/???----------81
b21a1----90-91—9.4:1-----2056.03-------140/135----------83
Head(CC)------Stroke—Con Rod Ratio—Con Rod Length
45.0------------89.0-----------1.54--------------137.00
45.0------------89.0-----------1.54--------------137.00
46.3------------95.0-----------1.50--------------142.75
47.3------------95.0-----------1.50--------------142.75
51.0------------95.0-----------1.49--------------141.70[/b]