question? most gains?

GENERAL At The Track
21

define no problems? how long has it been running? 200-300,000 miles like a stock engine? THEN tell me it has no problems, obviously it’s not something that’s gonna destroy your engine instantly,

anyways, here’s a quote from someone who know much more than most people on these boards, MD from team-integra:

lightened crank underpullies make power. I don’ think anyone is disputing that. It’s the risk of damage if it’s not acting as a harmonic damper that is the “controversy” here.

Oil pumps usually are the first casualty of a crank underpulley in a real road racer which keeps it’s revs above 6500 rpm for at least 30 min. straight and ventures near the redline a lot more than a 12-15 sec pass here and there.

Chromoly steel oil pump gears would be a wise investment with a lightened crank underpulley if you believe the harmonic dampener argument.

As I said, there’s no objective data to swing the vote one way or the other and if the risk is out there, then I’m not gambling my investment to a cheap modification that can throw it all away in a heartbeat. But that’s really a personal choice you have to make and no-one else can make it for you. This is like the hydrolock fear mongering out there. Yes it can happen. If you are worried about it then don’t do it. Simple. No need to wring your hands with worry and anxiety or obsess over it. Just move on to bigger and better things…that’s what I did.

so it’s up to you, like MD there’s no eveidence either way, except that people have reported oil pump failures when revving high using an aftermarket crank pully.

22

Here’s the quote you are referring to, i agree it’s pretty convincing but it IS a marketing thing, so you have to be midly skeptical,

from unorthodox.com

B18C5 Type-R

"We tore down my B18C5 Type-R block last week in preparation to send it to Golden Eagle for it’s 86mm gorilla resleeving… and we found ALL the main and rod bearings to be PERFECTLY clean - no wear whatsoever.

This puts to rest any question anyone might have that the UR pulley will screw up your bearings on a Honda B-Series or not - 42,000 miles and hundreds of 9700+ rpm runs on this new bottom end - and it’s running just fine on a 12oz piece of aluminum (Ultra R Pulley)."

David
DarkSol Motorsports
12.916 @ 104.23 mph

23

that sounds pretty convincing to me. I have also seen a 400+hp eclipse on some mag. with the pulley set. The guy drove it everyday and could run 11s in the quarter. I appreciate the fact that you actually went to the website and read about it though. That was enough info for me, but i guess not for others. As far as the team-integra thing, I learned something new everyday, good post.

It could be some marketing scheme also… You never know until you try it, I honestly would buy the Ultra SS set

24

i’d buy it too just cause I have an LS, and won’t be revving over 7200-7400rpm, but if I had an R or geezer i would have to think twice, not THAT much gains for the worry…

25

i knew i read something about that on their site.

  1. “Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?”

People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. “Harmonic Balancer” is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The “balancer” part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.

The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L’s, and 1.8L VW’s, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.

The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.

Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.

This is what convinced me

26

imo, i’ll skip the risk for my daily driver and look for power elsewhere.

27

The crank pulley description is correct, but the cause of failure is not.

Many second order and higher vibrations are undamped w/o the correct pulley. Read the above thread.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to go either way, but you guys are throwing examples of single incidents to prove a point. It’s an issue of probability. I’m sure there’s a car using N2O for 1000 drag passes and a perfectly fine engine. There’s a whole lot more that didn’t fair so well.

28

maybe you can explain why AEM stopped selling a crank pulley as part of their kit, and one of the selling features is quote:

“AEM has chosen to underdrive the accessories via their pulleys as opposed to the crankshaft pulley because the vibration dampner incorporated into the crankshaft pulley is critical to engine life.”

hmmm, unorthodox denies that the dampener even exists, and yet AEM pulled their pulley from the market, it’s obvious there ARE problems when replacing this, otherwise they would never have stopped selling it.

29

maybe you can explain why AEM stopped selling a crank pulley as part of their kit

AEM is a company i would never use, besides the intakes. Just look at there original cam gears. I can’t explain why they are saying that, i don’t like AEM or work for them, I have no clue. I have seen the pulley set from AEM and they seem pretty poor in quality.

I’m sure there’s a car using N2O for 1000 drag passes and a perfectly fine engine.

I am just qouting what i have learned from what i believe is a very reputable company. Just following up on the post.

30

i’m just saying that the fact they stopped sellling the pulley definately shows that there can be problems when replacing the stock crankshaft pulley.

you could say AEM sucks, and unorthodox is better, which is probably true, but AEM pulling the pulley from the market shows that an incorrectly designed crank pulley CAN threaten the life of your engine.

now unorthodox denies the existence of a stock harmonic balancer and basically says replacing your crank pulley with an aftermarket one cannot cause any damage, that doesn’t put my mind at ease cause we know that’s not true.

i’m kinda playing devils advocate here, cause in my opinion an LS would be fine with an unorthodox pulley and I’m probably gonna get one.

i think that quote from unorthodox is crap, the pulley DOES act as some sort of dampener in our engines, i don’t think that can be denied. i don’t understand why unorthodox would claim it doesn’t.

31

cause in my opinion an LS would be fine with an unorthodox pulley and I’m probably gonna get one.

I’ll agree with you on that. :up:

32

Read the thread I linked. There are numerous posts from people working on drivetrain systems who have taken data on this.