Well got a bare b18a1 block today and a b16a head today. Block is honed already and set to build. The head I sent off to get port and polish ect… This will not be a daily driver car. Going to need some help building and ordering the right parts. I’m doing all motor. Want to possibly run low 14’s or better. First question. Can I use a forged crank or will a stock one be fine? And also is 11.7:1 compression be ok or what would be the best? I want the most power possible. Thanks
u have to set a power goal first.
there are a ton of n/a builds on here check them out
the stock crankshaft is forged.
compression is fine.
first and foremost . . . what pistons are you going to use, which rods, and what camshafts are you thinking to run.
The head came with a new in box set of skunk2 stage 2 cams. But I was thinkin maybe the toda cams. Not sure what pistons or rods to use yet. I know I want eagle rods and cp pistons for sure. I want to get 240hp out of this. Prolly won’t happen but otherwise 220 works. Kind of was thinkin 84mm pistons? Or should I just stay with the 81mm? I been looking at so many different set-ups. And don’t know what to do now…
If you have already had it honed, then you are going to run whatever bore pistons your block is at, most likely 81. if you want to run 84mm pistons you have to have the block bored out to that. which btw is pushing the limits of your b18. 240whp is going to cost you . . . get your checkbook out.
i suggest 81.5 mm bore and hone. go from there. your horsepower goals are a bit high for what you have. to hit those numbers you will need more compression, some serious headwork, and larger camshafts, as well as a lot of tuning.
case of eyes bigger than your stomach so to speak.
with what you have, and what you plan on buying, 170-185 is possible (based on a similar build here locally by a friend).
b18a1 block
81.5mm bore
Shoot for 11.5:1 compression.
Get some SERIOUS headwork done. Portflow or Endyn, and get ready to drop some dough.
Port match the throttle body and intake manifold to the intake ports on the head after its sent back to you.
Drop a good penny on a good header. by good i mean if it costs less than $500, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Run ARP Hardware wherever you can internally. Rods/mains/head studs/etc.
Run a gsr or endyn girdle.
skunk2 stage 2 tuner camshafts ain’t gonna cut it. pro 1s are more applicable for what you want. you can use the cams you have by all means, but you won’t get close to your goals.
Mate this to a short geared transmission.
these are my opinions. as i said it’s similar to a local build that put down 185 on stage 2 tuner series camshafts.
it’s all relative though.
if you have some money and what a sick na lsv then you can get 250-280 fine, you just have to do the work and put down the bills. do some research, I have seen several na lsv that put down 285 to the wheels running 13:1 CP, (ported head, skunk2 valves, springs, retainers and stage 3 cams, skunk2 intake manifold, 75mm throttle body) its gonna cost ya about 1500 to 2000 for head work and about 2000 to 2500 for the block, then you’ll get the numbers, so, if you have 4 to 5k lying around, thats what you can get
um. where are you getting this information? this is not correct. 5k will NOT get you 250-280whp. camshafts and pistons alone are over $1500, and headwork and machine work will cost a lot more than 2k. that’s nearly 4k right there, and you haven’t even bought the new hardware, new seals, pumps, cam gears, manifolds etc.
don’t just throw numbers and prices out.
the more power you want from an NA bseries the more money you spend. i’m shooting for 200whp and i’ve spent nearly 5k in parts, labor, and machine work, and ive done most of the work myself, and i didn’t do any headwork, just a c5 head slapped on there.
i must have read through hundreds and hundreds of pages of ls/b20/vtec dynos and i have rarely seen one hit 280whp. is it possibe, yes, but it’s gonna cost you.
skunk2 stage 3 camshafts are almost $850 on their own. Running cams that big is for a SERIOUS engine builder and racer. They are NOT daily driver camshafts. hell they are not grassroots motorsports camshafts for crying out loud. these are full on race car camshafts. you don’t drive these things under 8k and expect them to make gobs of power. biger is not always better. 13:1 compression is race gas territory. the tuning costs alone are going to rack up a nice bill, and a deep hole in your pocket. and he sure as hell isn’t gonna get to that power level on a stock sleeved b18a1 block.
he has a head/block/and camshafts already. he’s got a good start for what he wants.
http://www.skunk2.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=DYN&Product_Code=305-05-5145
right from skunk2’s website. their pro2s are sufficient. but look at the compression they were running for pro2s. 14.3:1 and the octane rating has been blanked out. they are also using a b20 block.
850 for the cams? your getting raped. 600 i can get them all day long. and 2000 for head work? you need to find a different shop. my local shop is reputable nation wide for the 1500hp motors he puts out, and he ports&polishes and does everything the head needs (assembly of valves, guides, springs, ect) all to spec for under 500 for all. so again, find a different shop. if you want, i can get prices on EVERY thing i could build it for to make at lease 250whp for under 5k
anyone can find deals. msrp is different. never said that’s what i paid. i own my own shop. i can get deals all day long as well, but most people can’t. they come to places/people like me or their local tunign shops for parts. you can’t buy cams from me and expect to pay what i pay. take your chances on ebay if you wish. regardless.
you get what you pay for. whats the name of your local shop? if they are reputable nation wide im guessing it’s a chain? not sure what you mean by that.
imho, if you’re going to build a reliable racing engine like described above, you should spend the money to have a shop with documented expericene with HONDA engines working on the car. maybe that’s just me. Places like Endyn, Evans tuning, Portflow, etc. Some are more reasonable than others, some people don’t mind paying a premium b/c the work is guaranteed and with so many years experience the stuff is well known to be stuff that works.
Deals? I just priced everything including machine labor for 3300, now that gives someone a lot of room for tuning and so forth. and these prices i can get all day long every day from my machine shop. he doesn’t rip people off
Skunk2 Stage 3 Cams --$600
Brian Crowder springs and retainers—$350
Ferrea Valves 6000 Series-------$250
Guides, seals, misc. -------$80
Skunk2 intake man----$235
75mm throttle body----$250
Port, polish, machine, assembly, quoted from eckmans machine—$350
Total for head----$2070
ACURA 1990-01 INTEGRA B18A/B WITH B16A HEAD
253037 B18A/B WITH B16A HEAD 81.5mm 12.5:1 JE Pistons
Eagle Rods (this set comes with pistons, rods, & rings for $800 good for 600hp)
Acl race rod bearings------$80
Acl race main bearings----$80
Mr gasket 3 layer performance head gasket----$60
Arp head bolts----$135
Cylinder bore and deck plane from eckmans machine—$100
total for block------$1255
Total together------$3325
[QUOTE=atheworld0;2042424]Deals? I just priced everything including machine labor for 3300, now that gives someone a lot of room for tuning and so forth. and these prices i can get all day long every day from my machine shop. he doesn’t rip people off
Skunk2 Stage 3 Cams --$600 - thats a deal. cheaper than msrp = deal.
Brian Crowder springs and retainers—$350 - bout right
Ferrea Valves 6000 Series-------$250 - $350 is more realistic so you’re getting a deal here too.
Guides, seals, misc. -------$80 - guide area bout $50 so he’s gonna give you new seals and install them for $30? you have a deal there as well. usualyl a valvejob includes the price of new seals and the isntallation costs
Skunk2 intake man----$235 - ok
75mm throttle body----$250 - what company?
Port, polish, machine, assembly, quoted from eckmans machine—$350 - holy cheapness batman. you are definately getting a deal here. normally a good port/polish/valvejob package, from what i’ve seen, even locally is $1000 minimum.
Total for head----$2070 - icloser to $3000 for the head alone.
ACURA 1990-01 INTEGRA B18A/B WITH B16A HEAD
253037 B18A/B WITH B16A HEAD 81.5mm 12.5:1 JE Pistons
Eagle Rods (this set comes with pistons, rods, & rings for $800 good for 600hp)
Acl race rod bearings------$80 - full bearing sets i sell for $120 thats rod/main/thrust. most sites sell them together.
Acl race main bearings----$80
Mr gasket 3 layer performance head gasket----$60
Arp head bolts----$135 - ok. and 40 for rod bolts, and 100 for main studs.
Cylinder bore and deck plane from eckmans machine—$100 - that’s crazy cheap as well. again another deal. a bore/hone/decking on average runs between $300 and $500 depending on teh shop and their costs.
total for block------$1255 - closer to $1600
Total together------$3325[/QUOTE]
so giving you the benefit of the doubt you’re now at $4600 bucks for the things listed above.
you still haven’t factored for a new water pump, timing belt, tensioner, cam gears, oil pump, oil pan, oil pickup, new seals and gaskets for the block. he’ll aslo need a header and exhaust system or the whole thing gets choked down. nothing is port matched so it’s getting choked there as well. NOW factor in tuning costs. he has to buy a tuning program, get his ecu chipped, find a tuner/dyno/shop to hook him up and now you’re talking $100 an hour minium for tuning time. also factor in two oil changes worth of oil during break in. can’t run this setup without a clutch to handle the power changes.
Where are we now?
when you take on a project liek this, you have to be realistic. The unforseen always costs you a bunch. And when you cut corners it costs more in the longrun.
i know how to build and engine, just because you own a shop, doesn’t mean you know more than i do about an engine. second, we are were just talking an ENGINE build, not a PROJECT build. two different things, clutch, tuning, all that other stuff, goes under the PROJECT build. two different things. Yeah, i know you have to have a good tranny to connect that power to the ground and so on. your right when it comes to, if you want a high 12 second na lsvtec, then with what i said, the whole build will cost you about 8 to 10k. but he just wants 14’s, 210 hp will get him there and can be done for about 5k
i never said you didn’t know how to build an engine, and i don’t presume to know more just b/c i have a shop. engine build vs project build, what’s the point of building an engine if you don’t do all the other aspects that complete it? And engine build includes tuning and bolt on accessories, as well as the fresh seals and pumps, etc, b/c without them your engine doesn’t function properly, nor remain reliable. but in your post you mention having extra room for tuning and misc. so you know it’s part of an engine build.
a project build, to me at least, would actually include other aspects not directly related to the engine, such as dressup, interior modifications, suspension work, etc. if you don’t factor in tuning to your engine build then you are making a mistake. when you build an engine, especailly an ls/vtec you MUST take into account tuning.
now far as my owning a shop . . . i do get discounts, and even taking those into account it still has cost me close to 5k for my pretty std ls/vtec build. the average joe won’t get the pricing i get is my point. the fact that prices you listed you claim to be able to get all day are pretty low. those are deals no matter how you slice it man. you obviously have a good relationship with the machine shop you purchase from, and therefor can get some great pricing on things. theres nothing wrong with that. but when someone comes on a site like this loookinf for a ballpark, you have to be realistic. unless you plan to supply him with the parts he wants for the prices you pay and are willign to ship it to him, you need to make sure that the person you’re giving advice to has a realistic idea of what he or she will spend, and knowin what they will spend, they should have a realistic idea of a ballpark range of what they will make to the wheels.
Ok Well I think I’m gonna send my block and head to Je import performance out of Md. So far they haven’t given me a quote. Sure its gonna be high. I got 15 grand I could spend on the motor and I won’t be driving this on the street. But here’s a list they gave me.
Sleeves, high comp forged pistons, forged rods, race blueprint and balance, ported and polished head and extensive dyno tuning.
I am also gonna build another motor on my own just so I can say I built my own motor. Unless this shop isn’t a good one?
if you have that much for a budget, just buy this engine
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-B18a-block-LS-v-tec-B18c-head-race-engine-motor-R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem2553ba3353QQitemZ160318501715QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
ya thats smart buy a random engine off ebay, doesnt say who built it, or where, no horsepower numbers, 15.1 compression is retarded, and its gonna take 116 race gas, and 440cc injectors seem kinda low, sure it has some nice parts but you know nothing about this motor
Just for a point of reference:
I’m doing a n/a b17 build for a garage toy car that will be driven a little bit and tracked occasionally for fun. The car is mostly my collector item and is not going to get much done aside from good suspension and a bullet proof motor that will make pretty sweep HP.
First:
Pistons are 12:1 (500)
Rods crower (700)
cams endyn bump styx (500)
300$ in bearings
350$ in gaskets (so i can go full synthetic the right way)
valve train 750 with springs guides seals retainers keepers and lma’s
ecu and other necessary parts 700
550 for a header
200 for header back stuff
timing belt water pump oil pump about 200
clutch probably another 400.
radiator 300
new motor mounts haven’t looked at these yet
hoses another 100 or so.
new cat for the bigger exhaust …no clue yet but pricey im sure.
RDX injector conversion not sure yet on that. (this also mean custom tuning more so because of an unusual injector for the car, which means I have to get flow rates not just the cc but also the amount vs. pulse ratio)
adjustable cam gears too. like what 200? I still have more parts to get lol
Thats just parts.
Labor? well honing and such for the block probably 100 or so
head work? whew probably about 1000+ (thats port and polish. matching tb and intake mani)
tuning probably another 400
Don’t feel like adding it. i already know its alot though…ok fine:
Thats roughly 7gs yall. This is a non-goaled build too. I hope I make mad hp but Im not that worried about it. My mad hp is going to be a boosted monster of some sort. Probably a b20v-t teg for dd too.
Hell wiith a good tune on the b17 build i could probably daily drive that thing and it’d be fine. Either way what i’m saying is if you want to make a huge hp goal of 220+ read alot ALOT. I mean you may need to learn all about lift and duration vs rpm and throttle position. you will need to know stuff about flow and such.
I’m no where near an expert on motor shit so if some of this is wrong let me know I love to know more.
Max you’ve got a great start, do lots of homework and know the availability of stuff as far as race gas and reputable tuners if you go crazy with this.
Ya decided I want to build my own lsv and since I now own 2 teggy’s. Ones gonna be for drag and the other my dd. Now for my own build. Block first! Haven’t touched anything. Did some research. Hp goal:200 I haven’t taken the block apart yet but. Here’s the parts I have and am going to get. Let me know if any is needed or not. Or if I’m missing something.
Block hot tanked,honed
Resurface crank
Acl race bearings
Ls rods shotpeened ect…
Arp rod bolts
Pr3 pistons? Not sure what to go with yet, want 11:7 - 12 cr I know
That’s the block.
Gsr head plans are:
Port and polish
3 angle valve job
skunk2 retainers,valves,ect…
Skunk2 stage2 cams
Skunk2 Im port match
70mm TB?
Gsr water pump timing belt
Lsv oil line kit
Not sure what ecu to use…
And have a excellent shop waiting to tune it when I’m done building.
Any advice on what to do and not to do is welcome. Let me know if I am missing anything and what I need or not and also what I could change. Didn’t know what rods or pistons to go with. Thanks!
to run 14’s like you want should only cost you 2k, you dont need a fully built motor to have fun just get type r head internals and rs machines type r pistons and a short geared trans…you can find alot of this stuff used and it still works fine
CTR pistons and a stage 3 cam are a must for that high of a CR