Well, this is an odd swap in the first place but let me explain first. My B17A finally through an ill-fated rod through the block at 164,000 miles while driving on the highway. I’m looking to swap in a B16A because B17A’s are extremely rare, and a B16A is the next closest and economical swap. I just want to swap this motor until I get out of college in a couple years. I have some questions however.
SPECS:
Vehicle : 1992 Acura Integra GSR
Original engine : B17A DOHC VTEC
Original ECU : P61
Original Transmission: YS1 GSR Cable
All components are original to the car and are OBDI DOHC VTEC compliant.
A few notes before I ask my questions. I would like to retain the original ECU and transmission, but am willing to switch them out if necessary. I would like to keep my car OBDI and VTEC. I am willing to spend anywhere from $1000-$3000 for the swap and am prospecting at doing the work myself. I know that all B-SERIES engines BOLT in the same and consider myself to be mechanically inclined and have been reading up on this material for sometime now. There is no need to get into the real basics.
If I plan on keeping my P61 ECU and YS1 tranny, will an OBDI B16A (USDM or JDM) simply plug-in? Will my wiring harness need to be extended, or wires need to be tapped and run to my ECU? Anything need to be spliced?
Does anyone know of any place besides Passen Motorsports in Columbus and DEFCON Motorsports in Toledo that does reputable Honda engine swaps in Ohio?
Does anyone have any suggestions on where to get the motor? I would be willing to buy the transmission and ECU if it came as a packaged price.
Anything unforeseen that I might run into? Any other advice?
Lastly, I just wanted to say thank you in advance for my answering questions. I am by no means a newbie, but this will be my first engine swap.
First off, sorry to hear about your loss. That really sucks. About the 2nd Gen B16A, everything will bolt up fine. You can use your GSR YS1 without any problems. Everything is interchangeable. The engine is simply plug and play. I do recommend you use your B17A cams if they survived your bent rod incident. They will be stronger than the B16A cams.
This is a really easy swap. I think the hardest time you will have is finding someone that will sell the 2nd gen B16A without the ECU or tranny. Most shops ask around $2200-$2500 for this package. You can turn around and sell the JDM S1 or Y1 tranny for $300-$400, sell the P30 ECU for $150-$200.
I hope this helps you out a bit. Let me know if you have any other questions. I would be more than happy to answer them.
Just find a B16A long block, and use your existing tranny, ECU, injectors, distributor, plugs & wires, etc. Just basically swap out the long block and everything will bolt up and plug & play just fine - if you get a 1st gen B16A, then it’ll come with non-OBD injectors & distributor… use your B17A OBD-1 injectors & distributor on the B16A motor, it’ll work just fine. As for cams, the B17A cams aren’t better than B16A cams… they’re about the same. Even if you switch to GSR cams, you’re not going to notice a difference (been there, done it on a few cars). If you don’t get anything like ITR cams or better, just leave the stock cams alone for now. Otherwise, you’re not going to notice a difference in power.
If you use your existing distributor, alternator, injectors, ECU, etc, then you can throw any B-series motor in there and run it OBD-1.
Does anyone have any comments on the SWAPPING differences between the B16A (JDM, 170HP 92-95 SiR) vs. the B16A2/3 (USDM, 92-95 Del Sol 160HP). I don’t care about differences as far as compression increases or cam numbers. I already know those.
I’m just concerned at this point with any unforeseen modifications that will have to be made to accomodate between the two B16A’s. If there are no install differences between the two and the price difference is only a few hundred dollars I may spring for the higher compression JDM motor.
If you use your existing distributor, alternator, injectors, ECU, etc, then you can throw any B-series motor in there and run it OBD-1.
Anyone else have an opinion on this? Aren’t there slight differences with the addition of sensors/tapped holes/etc. that are different? I plan on sticking with OBD-I because I’m having a shop do the swap, because I’m not comfortable doing it in my alloted time span (less than a week). In the future, I’ll still have my B17A lying around in unusable condition so if I have any questions about how to do something, I can just practice it off the car.
Thanks for the input so far. You are all calming my nerves a little bit.
EDIT: By the way Dan, I was hoping you would include a section in your G2 swap guide on swapping from a 92-93 GSR (B17A) to the other B-Series engines like you did for the non-VTECS. The guide helped me out but somewhat indirectly and if the guide covered that you probably would not had to have answered these questions. Just a friendly suggestion.
The Same thing happened with my b17a1 at 189k the rod blew in half i still have the other half i did the same thing you did I took a b16a1 shortblock block with pistons bolted my b17a1 head intake mani all sensors and tranny up to it and called it gravy i know most people arnt going to agree with me but i feel the b16a1 pulled harder then the b17a1 and i felt like it had more get up maybe that was becase it had so many less miles its a good swap also you can sell all your other stuff b17a1 block etc. if you have any questions let me know.
You may want to consider building the motor also get a b16a1 block and add some Jdm itr Pistons good upgrade for cheap when the entire is apart i would also recomend a new water pump timing belt and even rod bearings on one of htose jdm pieces.
Originally posted by babybluegsr92
[B]The Same thing happened with my b17a1 at 189k the rod blew in half i still have the other half i did the same thing you did I took a b16a1 shortblock block with pistons bolted my b17a1 head intake mani all sensors and tranny up to it and called it gravy i know most people arnt going to agree with me but i feel the b16a1 pulled harder then the b17a1 and i felt like it had more get up maybe that was becase it had so many less miles its a good swap also you can sell all your other stuff b17a1 block etc. if you have any questions let me know.
I’m just going to swap the whole B16A for the whole B17A. I know the bottom is trashed. The rod went THROUGH the block. As in oil/coolant sputtering out on the exhaust manifold because there is a good sized hole in it. The valvetrain had a strange cam noise in it that was introduced at about the 145,000 mile marker.
I feel much more comfortable with throwing in a completely lightly used motor than using a pieced together B17A. The B17A will be reserved for primarily recreational purposes (ie-taking it apart, and installing/uninstalling parts on it), and then if it’s worth anything I’ll probably keep it around. I know it needs new guides among other things.
By the way, the B17A block is identical to the B16A block to the best of my knowledge. The only real difference between the two is rods, crank, and possibly pistons. (not sure about the latter).
Originally posted by mojoGSR92 By the way, the B17A block is identical to the B16A block to the best of my knowledge. The only real difference between the two is rods, crank, and possibly pistons. (not sure about the latter).
You are correct in saying the B17A block is identical to a B16A block. Both are PR3’s and the difference exists in the rotating assembly.
For any B16A motor you purchase, 1st gen or 2nd gen, USDM or not, do this. Remove the complete intake manifold including injectors and throttle body. Remove the distributor. Replace the parts you remove from the B16A with the parts from the B17A. There you go, it’s ready to plug and play, no issues with vacuum lines or the harness. There is one PA sensor on the back of the block that will be missing or will be a different style depending on what kind of B16 you get. It’s not essential and you shouldn’t worry about it. There also is a temp sensor located on the thermostat housing that 1st gen b16’s don’t have, transfer that and you’re good to go. It really isn’t a difficult swap at all, and any able bodied shop should be able to do this being able to retain your transmission and P61 ECU.
Originally posted by babybluegsr92 You may want to consider building the motor also get a b16a1 block and add some Jdm itr Pistons good upgrade for cheap when the entire is apart i would also recomend a new water pump timing belt and even rod bearings on one of htose jdm pieces.
Don’t do that… you’ll lower the compression on the B16A when you throw in any ITR pistons into that block. The dome on an ITR piston is lower than on a PR3/P30 SiR piston, thus dropping your compression ratio to mid 9’s. If you throw CTR pistons into your B16A, you’ll get a good 11.0:1 cr, and if you throw CTR pistons into a B17A and use the B17 rods & crank, you’ll see 11.4:1 cr, good for all motor. The reason the B16A feels faster than the B17A motor is mainly because of the difference in compression. The B16A has a compression of 10.4:1 while the B17A is almost a full point lower… this makes a noticable difference in performance. Cams are otherwise basically the same, until you switch to Type R cams or better. Been there, done it all on numerous cars.
First of all, I want this to stay on topic. I made it clear that I’m not getting into the internals of my engine at this point because I simply do not have the time here at work. When I go back to school I’ll likely open it up, but until then a discussion on this won’t help me whatsoever.
Anyways, I wanted to know if anyone knew about any differences between the JDM and USDM B16A. I assume they bolt up identically but I would not be surprised if there were variations in certain connectors/sensors between the two. I would like to be aware of this, as it may influence my engine decision and install. I know the engines have different compressions and likely different cam grinds but that doesn’t concern me at this point as I know those differences. I’m only concerned with install variations.
Also, does anyone have any recommended engine distributors that either they, or close friends have done business with and had an enjoyable experience? The best way to find out about these things is really word of mouth and that is my reason for asking.
My last question reguards actually doing the swap. Besides a cherry picker (i.e. engine lift) are there any other special tools required besides a timing light/ball joint puller? I am seriously considering doing this myself as I consider myself mechanically inclined and I have a ride to work if worse comes to worse. I’ll list my tools below:
22" lift jack
4 Jack stands
Large torque wrench
Small ratcheting wrench
Box o’ sockets, deep, normal, metric and SAE
Flat wrenches
Power drill and a multitude of bits
Butane soldering iron/solder/desoldering braid
Miscellaneous adjustable wrenches
Screw drivers of all sizes
I figure, anything else I don’t have like the engine hoist/ball joint pullers and the like I can just pay the deposit at autozone, and get it back when I return the tools. Thanks in advance for the response.
Don’t do that… you’ll lower the compression on the B16A when you throw in any ITR pistons into that block. The dome on an ITR piston is lower than on a PR3/P30 SiR piston, thus dropping your compression ratio to mid 9’s. If you throw CTR pistons into your B16A, you’ll get a good 11.0:1 cr, and if you throw CTR pistons into a B17A and use the B17 rods & crank, you’ll see 11.4:1 cr, good for all motor. The reason the B16A feels faster than the B17A motor is mainly because of the difference in compression. The B16A has a compression of 10.4:1 while the B17A is almost a full point lower… this makes a noticable difference in performance. Cams are otherwise basically the same, until you switch to Type R cams or better. Been there, done it all on numerous cars. [/B]
newman, are you sure about the compression ratios with itr pistons? Here is what was my understanding:
all in b16a:
pr3: 10.2:1
p30: 10.4:1
usdm itr: about 10.4:1
jdm itr: about 10.6:1
pct: about 11.1:1
if you look at the pics on http://tiiite.b16a.com/pistons.htm you can see the pics of all the pistons.
i say save your money and get a good used ls block.far better performance.you can pick up used ls short blocks pretty cheap.and spend another $50 dollars for the miscelaneous hoses and fittings.thats if your heads still good.this way you keep all of your original parts that were not damaged
Originally posted by b22c5 i say save your money and get a good used ls block.far better performance.you can pick up used ls short blocks pretty cheap.and spend another $50 dollars for the miscelaneous hoses and fittings.thats if your heads still good.this way you keep all of your original parts that were not damaged
Not an option. I already explained my options, and I’m not willing to delve into the motor itself because I simply don’t have time right now. Please read the above if you just skimmed or didn’t read it at all.
itt seems like you already know what to do…so why ask in tha first place.Your not taking suggestions very well.Dude if you know your “options” then just do it.please dont accuse me of not reading the thread…i was just trying to help you out bro…no need to be a jerk…sheesh
I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m not interested in swapping internals. I just want to swap motors from an OBDI B16A to an OBDI B17A. Nothing more to it, and I apologize if I came off snotty. :shy:
I just wanted to have every doubt reassured and advice from all who have experience. I’m just not interested in reading about compression ratios from motors that I’m not using parts out of whatsoever.
