The 18 month DA project / Electrical Nightmare (very long)

ASSISTANCE Hybrids & Advanced Aftermarket Engine Performance
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The following is going to be most long winded, but I feel necessary to chronicle the issues I have encountered, along with the attempts at solutions.

18 months ago.
Friend of mine acquired a very nice one owner high mileage 92 Integra 5-speed. While the car was sitting, the ECU was stolen out of it. In this act of jackassery, the thieves cut the ECU harness plugs instead of simply unplugging. Bastards!

12 months ago.
Buddy finally gets around to messing with the car, acquires a set of of OBD-1 ECU plugs, an ECU (abeit Automatic) and repairs the car. It seems to have made a full recovery. A few weeks of daily driving, building some nice parts for it, and he decides that this whole “import thing” isn’t for him. I trade him my 535is for the DA.

10 months ago – first sign of problems
We are out on a test driving, enjoying the music being created by a bitching new custom 2.5” SS header back exhaust when after a good highway pull, the car looses all power. Barely keeps running. Headlights dim. Lights on the instrument panel start dimming in and out, seat belt computer starts beeping madly, etc. Normal crazy Integra electrical stuff, eh!?!

8 months ago – very big, yet unrelated problem.
This electrical problem reoccurred a few times, but was intermittent at best. The few times it happened, an ECU reset seemed to make it go away. I have autocrossed the car a few times, and now take it to a track weekend. Forth lap on the track on my second day, #4 rod decides to see what the world is like on the outside of the block.

…Long winter of harvesting parts…

Last month – current.
A little bit of background first so you can get an idea of what’s now under the hood. - I have built a B20/VTEC for the car. Stock sensors all swapped over on the B20 bottom end. All OE Honda bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. B16 head. Brand new Distributor, wires, plugs, etc of course. Hytech-like Tri-Y header – currently open header until I get the car running / part the mofo out(i.e. clogged cat is not the issue), P73 ITR intake manifold, with a B16 TB on there for now. MAP on the TB, but I’m using the stock firewall one right now – maybe I’ll extend the harness and use the TB one at some point.

After getting the motor to fire on the first attempt (thank you baby Jesus), I encounter the same electrical problem. Lighting on the instrument panel goes crazy. Beeping seat belt computer. Motor looses power and idle, finally dies no matter how much throttle is fed to it. But what was once very intermittent is now all the time. Sometimes it will run 5 seconds, sometimes 30 seconds.

Below, I’m going to list everything I have thought it might be and traced, troubleshoot, etc.

  • I originally started the new motor up with an CEL error – code 7 (TPS). I was expecting this as I had broken my original on engine removal, and the spare was untested. I installed new TPS, and now encounter no CEL’s.

  • Thought I might have an ICU problem. Removed the ICU, checked for the potentially bad components. No problems at all, very clean. Swapped in a spare ICU for shits and giggles with no effect.

  • I have an extra ECU, a socketed P28. I have swapped it in as well. It has no effect on the problem.

  • Swapped spare Main Relays with no effect.

At this point, I pulled out my toner (fox and hound) and decided to re-check my friend’s electrical prowess. As some of you may know, Honda in their infinite wisdom decided to place the same colored wire on the same plug in several instances on the ECU connections. Bastards! Well success! (or so I thought at the moment) I discovered that the ground for the brake light switch and the ground for the MAP sensor were mixed up (they are the same green/something on the same plug, there are three wires like this on the same plug). I thought I had hit the jackpot, that this was going fix everything. Alas, it was not to be – same issue being encountered.

This Weekend
I decide to give my ground cable a looksie – it looks a little corroded. I search around the house, and grab the heaviest guage wire I’ve got (something pathetic, 8-10g) and make up a decent attempt at a temporary ground cable. Partial success!!! In the cockpit, the instrument panel lights don’t blink or go crazy, the clock is lit solidly, the seat belt computer is quiet. BUT THE MOTOR STILL WON’T RUN MORE THAN 30 SECONDS.
Additionally now, with no other changes, after the second or third time re-firing, I’ve now got a very noticeable miss in the engine. Could just be I’m starting to fowl the plugs out after so many restarts.

…So guys, I’m writing this because I’m stumped. I’ve got a few more ideas below or things that I’d like to rule out or whatnot that I’m going to write, but I’d love to hear some educated guess/ideas/etc.

  • Alternator - Could I be lacking enough voltage to run the ignition system? This is actually my best idea right now. It is the original I believe.
  • Distributor/Coil/Igniter – It’s all brand new. Could be a dud, but I had this problem before.
  • Fuel Pump/Injectors/Clogged Fuel Filter – Fuel delivery issue? I don’t think this is it, but who knows?
  • The Wiring Harness – I pulled a complete un-cut harness from another OBD-1 DA in the junkyard. If worse comes to worst, I could try installing a whole new harness to rule out this major potential issue. But man, is that a heck of a job. I’m honestly not sure if I wouldn’t part the car out first.

Any ideas would greatly be appreciated guys!!!
-Jayson

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could it be the (automatic) ECU ?? maybe find a manual…i really don’t know, but good luck.

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I know that at one point my car did the same thing… weird dimming of the lights…seat belt shit went crazy on me…even started clicking sometimes…random cutoff of the motor…sometimes never starting…
As stupid as it sounds it turned out to be nothing more than my valve cover ground…when the motor was pulled and built…the ground was never re-installed…After I re-installed it and added a couple extra grounds…I have never had this problem again…not even once…
On prior cars that I built I never used the ground and most of the time never thought it was really necessary…I guess every car is different.
Grounds are key to having a great car…you would be surprised. I know I was…

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I wouldn’t think so as many people run an auto ECU when they have to with no ill side effects. But I swapped in a spare P28 I had lying around, with the same effect.

[QUOTE=2literdb2;1687343]I know that at one point my car did the same thing… weird dimming of the lights…seat belt shit went crazy on me…even started clicking sometimes…random cutoff of the motor…sometimes never starting…
As stupid as it sounds it turned out to be nothing more than my valve cover ground…when the motor was pulled and built…the ground was never re-installed…After I re-installed it and added a couple extra grounds…I have never had this problem again…not even once…
On prior cars that I built I never used the ground and most of the time never thought it was really necessary…I guess every car is different.
Grounds are key to having a great car…you would be surprised. I know I was…[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I believe it. My crappy little 10g temporary ground cable I made on Satuday fixed all the blinking light crazyness, but I’ve still got the engine issue. I’m thinking of making a few more grounding straps, but I can’t really add them to the battery terminal and I don’t know how much effect straps going from the engine to the body are going to have.

I really do NOT believe this is a component failure (ECU, etc) but rather an infastructure (wiring, ground, power delivery, etc) failure somewhere - which sucks 10x harder as you can’t use the computer to help you troubleshoot the issue.

Thanks for the ideas guys - anyone else feel free to chime in.

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maybe i would have gotten more feedback if I had just titled this “HELP y0!”

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Did they steal your radio too?

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No, it just had the stock cassette deck (well, a CD changer as well). So yeah, I never really thought about that before, but it is odd.

I’ve since replaced with a nice stock CD head unit - looks great in the dash. Just wish the damn car ran!!!

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Ok you got the lights and seat belt problem fix and now it the motor dying out on every start. I had the problem and it was a manifold leak and vaccum line was in uncorrect place. Intake manifold I didn’t remove all the old gasket off the cylinder head and jump to puttin on the new gasket so I just used gasket maker all around the outside so it won’t have air leak. As the vaccum I had it all mix up with the egr and fuel by-pass valve vaccum line I did some looking around and found vaccum diagrams on a OBD-0 in my 91 auto converted to manual and I used the OBD-0 5spd ECU so no need for EGr and that made the vaccum a lot easier. Now the car run and was total in a wreak. Hope this help because my did the same thing after a motor and tranaxles swap, took me 3 month after to finally get it alive again… you said it a b16 head and b20 block so I think you need to wire up the vtec and use the b16 or b17 ecu cause I don’t think Pr4 auto will work with a b16 I think the p28 might do but check all the vaccum or it can be your distrubutor timing or fuel supply (code43). Also did you convert or use hasport harness ? Since you trying to run a vtec. I’m not a vtec guy so I wouldn’t know if you need to but I have seen people that needed too. I’m just posting what I want through with my DA. My bad for the long story.

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Well I used OE gaskets so I doubt I have a leak at the manifold.

For giggles I might rip all the vaccum off the manifold and see where that gets me…

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have you try’d the motor harnest ground by the lower radiator hose?

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Yes, it fixed the the lights blinking in the interior, seat belt beeping, etc. But the motor still doesn’t run right.

And on top of everything else, I’ve now got a miss. I pulled the plugs, the were very dark. Threw in a spare set, thinking that all the starting and short run periods had simply fowled them out. No such luck.

I swear this thing is gonna get parted soon.

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done.

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i duno what you mean by done, my battery crapped out due to a inconsistant cooling fan, (IE: runs when it wants to, doesnt run when it should). battery was dead, pop started the car, it ran but with the same problems you had (dim lights, crazy seatbelt beeping, not enough power to even drive it). Well i got it jump started and it was fine until i tried to beat on it, it would misfire and pre detonate after 5k. I obviously was smart enough and took it home right away. Pulled EVERYTHING that could cause this malfunction only to find out when I put my MSD ignition in (back when I was a noooob), i fried up some distributor wires… just got done fixing it and its beastier than ever. so try to switch up your battery or check your distributor connections… goodspeed DA’s

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ugh, my car is doing the crazy light thing. anyone have a straight answer for this?

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i had the exact same problem about a year and a half ago…i completely changed out my big ground cable, and negative terminal, because the original one was rotten! changed my battery which was done after losing charge about 5 times, and the problem never came back…it’s a ground problem, just make sure you have lots of ground everywhere, too much can never hurt…so don’t be shy with maybe adding a ground cable or two

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^^cool, thanks. i am going to inspect things this weekend, let you guys know how it turns out.

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I had a problem like this, it was also the grounds.

Go to walmart and grab some of there ground battery wires and 1 battery terminal ground. I have 3 coming off the tranny, 1 to battery, 1 to original battery body ground, and one to my valve cover. I unbolted the tranny cable holder plate and installed the grounds on top of it.

I have 2 others coming off my valve cover, they are 10g wires, 1 to stock ground location and 1 right next to it going to the cruise control area.

Ill go snap a pic if you need it.