The check engine light takes time to go out? HELP!!!!

ASSISTANCE Electrical & Entertainment Systems
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I’m not sure if your interpretation is correct, or mine… But it sounds to me that the EGR plug he has is on the ENGINE, not the harness. So it’s the plug on the EGR component, the plug that the engine harness would normally plug into. The pics he has shows the vtec wiring, so it’s obvious that it’s an obd1 vtec engine harness. As far as I know the only vtec engines that came w/ an auto trans were from japan, and I’m not sure if those had an EGR system or not.

there is info on how to fix the main fuel relay, but that might not be his problem. He needs to do the troubleshooting procedure I pointed out. If he does that it should pinpoint if the problem is with the MFR, the ECU, or some issue w/ the wiring between those two components.

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I might have just red it wrong my mistake sorry

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i dunno. the way i’ve always figured was to confirm the problem indefinitely before you chase it. wouldn’t take long. then, once confirmed, i’d proceed with the flow chart as you’d mentioned

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When you say “second” relay, you mean one of the two within the MFR? Have you taken apart the main fuel relay to see if the connections inside are good? When it takes time for the CEL to turn off and you’re able to start the car - is it consistently the same amount of time, or does it seem to be random? Sometimes taking a few moments and sometimes taking a long time?

No, the time is random, but starting high, over 2 minutes, then coming down to 30secs and lower after several starts untill it works properly if I continue to start it. but if I let it sit for even a miute then It will take up to 10 seconds to restart it. And that is my problem. I don’t know what is causeing the delay. I have 2 fpr’s and they both act the same…I even tried resoldering the small board on the fpr, but it reacts the same.

DO NOT get a new engine harness. This will make your problem worse. You want to use the original harness for the CHASSIS. The wiring in the connectors on the main harness are different for the GSR and rs/ls/gs models, so you need the main harness to match the engine harness or you’ll be routing signals to the wrong place. Of course you could re-pin the connectors - but in this case that’s pointless, you already have the right harness.

The EGR only came on auto trans cars, you have a manual trans, so you do not need to plug it in. I’m pretty positive you can just leave it unhooked. But it’s worth doing some searches about “deleting” or removing the EGR system. You could also look at the auto to manual trans write-up, as it will talk about the EGR system and what you can do with it when you install a manual transmission and manual ECU.

Read THIS thread. It will explain the various “units” you’re dealing with and how they change from 90-91 to 92+. It sounds like your engine is a 90-91. In which case you need to cut off the plug on your engine harness and extend the wires to the ECT switch. However, if you said the fans already go on, then someone may have already made it so the fans work properly. Go look at your thermostat housing, does it have an ECT switch on it? Or is it bare of anything with a wire connected to it? It’s possible that someone installed a 92+ thermostat housing with the ECT switch and then just plugged the engine harness in as it normally would on a 92+.

That must be it because there is not a switch on the rediator. There is a switch in the thermostat housing. And the fan cuts on normally

THIS is what a 92+ thermostat housing and ECT switch looks like.

Throw your Haynes in the trash! Or burn it! It’s complete crap and you’re completley wasting your time with it. it doesn’t have enough information and a lot of info is either missing or incorrect. The Helms is the only manual worth using.

I downloaded the service manual…much better and much more depth!can learn from this manual

Welfare is correct, that is your vtec wiring. Just leave it alone, it’s perfectly OK for it to be disconnected and will cause ZERO problems. I ran a car like that for YEARS. And as I stated before, only auto trans cars came w/ an EGR system. So yes, that’s why you don’t have that wiring.

Nice to know that part…so guess an incorrect intake manifold. will either block it or get one without the egr port.

As I stated before, do not use anything but the GSR engine harness. You’re asking for more trouble if you try swapping.

OK, so after all of this reading in both of your threads this actually sounds like an extremely easy problem to troubleshoot. And this troubleshooting starts at the main fuel relay and will lead to other wiring and the ecu. Follow the troubleshooting procedure beginning on 11-119 in the Helms manual. The procedure will guide you thru checking the main fuel relay, and all of the wiring involved in that system.

You have to remember that you seem to have some sort of temperamental and intermittent problem. The main fuel relay is known for such finicky problems. However if the problem was caused by an incorrect wiring harness you’d expect it to be a consistent problem…

I have 2 MfR’s, they both work, but both get a delayed energize signal from somewhere. I hope the guy can get much closer or figure it out for me…will let you know. Am keeping the orginal engine harness in for now. Thanks
OK, enough typing for now, I gotta eat dinner![/QUOTE]

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I turn the ingnition on, the lights come on on the dash like they are supposed to. There are 2 relays in the mfr box, when I turn the key to start, one of them clicks, gets energized. In a proper starting and running car, the key should be able to start the car right up! It does in all my other cars. The 2 second fuel run pressurizes the system and the cars starts fine. For some reason, when the key/power is first turned on the cel stays on. If I have started the car that day, it may take up to 2 minutes before the cel goes out, the second relay in the mfr energizes, the fuel pump energizes, the fuel system gets pressure, then I can start the car no problem.

So, what is setting this timer problem. Why does it take seconds or minutes for the system to work? Iam trying to trace the reason…but have been unable to as yet. It won’t get away fro me though.

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it could be a poor ground. but try the troubleshooting sequence mentioned in the manual. if followed correctly, it should pinpoint your problem

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What problem are you confirming by testing fuel pressure? We already know that the pump is capable of the pressure needed to start the car and keep the engine running.

If he hooks up a pressure gauge he’s going to get two scenarios:

  1. CEL acts normally, fuel pump primes, appropriate fuel pressure is reached, and car starts normally.

  2. CEL does not act normally, fuel pump does not prime, inadequate fuel pressure is shown on the gauge, and the car does not start.

Either way, knowing the pressure tells us nothing except confirms that when he can’t hear the pump prime it is in fact not supplying sufficient pressure. Which leads us to where we are now; why is the pump not priming when it should be? The answer lies somewhere in the system that supplies power to the pump.

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yeah, you’re right. probably best to start at the other end. figure out which pin from the ecu supplies the initial prime and probe it. and if that checks out, probe the receiving pin at the relay. i’d imagine the circuit is fused between the relay and ecu. if it is, maybe measure the voltage across the fuel pump fuse after you’ve probed the ecu.
probably either gonna be the ecu or wiring between there and the relay.
i apologize. i’ve been throwing monkey wrenches into this whole thread when the procedure is probably pretty basic and obvious. i think we’re all on the same page here now though

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[QUOTE=welfare;2165364]yeah, you’re right. probably best to start at the other end. figure out which pin from the ecu supplies the initial prime and probe it. and if that checks out, probe the receiving pin at the relay. i’d imagine the circuit is fused between the relay and ecu. if it is, maybe measure the voltage across the fuel pump fuse after you’ve probed the ecu.
probably either gonna be the ecu or wiring between there and the relay.
i apologize. i’ve been throwing monkey wrenches into this whole thread when the procedure is probably pretty basic and obvious. i think we’re all on the same page here now though[/QUOTE]

Strange thing with this is that when I turn the key on after letting the car sit for several hours, nothing for several minutes…but if I leave the ignition on…then go out and pull the 7.5 amp fuse that resets the Ecu, then replace it quickly…the system energizes…the fuel pump starts and the cel goes out…and the car starts…! Weird!!!

But the cel will go out eventually if I leave that fuse alone…it has continuity in that fuse. I took the car to a gy that knows a lot more than me about these cars and hope he sees something I missed. Will keep you all informed…Iam optimistic…not too optimistic but hopefully.

Russ

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Well, I brought the car to a guy that knows a lot about these cars and Honda’s. I had been up to ask him a few questions about my problem with the car. I brought him the ecu, he took the plates off and said in his opinion that he was 99% sure it was in good order.

He had a few ecu’s to throw at it after checking the critical grounds and checking the important relays. He had another PR4, tried it and it acted the same. The codes from my ecu was a zero. I thought it jsut wasn’t throwing a code. ECU. He then tried a p75 and it started right up like it was supposed to! but it was an automatic ecu and threw out the code for the auto tranny. But apparently there weren’t any other codes. I don’t remember the other 2 ecu’s he tried but one was a Hondata and they all worked. Just the pr4’s had the delay problem.

He thinks that when the original 1.7 was pulled and replaced by the 1.8L, that the guy who tried to get it going might have swapped a few pins to the ecu to try to get it running. But don’t know about that since the p75 worked. And don’t know the true history of the car, except it has been all around the country, first Texas, then Oregon, Conneticut and back to Louisiana. It was reported to either have had an accident or was the victem of a theft…I’m thinking theft.

So the winner is, well who ever it was that suggested the P75 ECU!.. I am also getting the correct, well a better intake too. The guy said a P75 intake, not sure if this was positively correct but it is much simpler and does not have the egr valve. He mentioned a different and better throttle body too, but will have to search around for that, not sure which stock one he mentioned, but will get the model part tomorrow when I get the car.

Thanks for all the help and advice…I have learned a lot but still a long way to go. I will still be asking a lot of questions, so please be as patient as you have been so far.

Russ

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I have an Integra 1992 GSR and something similar happened to me during the last summer. I followed the issue, step by step, to the point of taking out ECU and opening it. When I did it, i found some of the internal ‘cylinders’ (i think they act like little batteries for the ECU) where busted/loose, showing a brown liquid around it. I think thats because those components have almost 20 years old and the weather here is very wet.

I changed these components by taking them out with an special tool which is used to cut the welds attached to the ‘motherboard’, and replaced all of these little batteries (which are very cheap), soldering them with a welding pistol. Be sure to get the same type of batteries on each case. Hope these helps!

Regards, :salute:
Juan Pablo

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[QUOTE=jpfpa;2171831]I have an Integra 1992 GSR and something similar happened to me during the last summer. I followed the issue, step by step, to the point of taking out ECU and opening it. When I did it, i found some of the internal ‘cylinders’ (i think they act like little batteries for the ECU) where busted/loose, showing a brown liquid around it. I think thats because those components have almost 20 years old and the weather here is very wet.

I changed these components by taking them out with an special tool which is used to cut the welds attached to the ‘motherboard’, and replaced all of these little batteries (which are very cheap), soldering them with a welding pistol. Be sure to get the same type of batteries on each case. Hope these helps!

Regards, :salute:
Juan Pablo[/QUOTE]

Well, I brought it to a guy that works on these cars. The first thing he did was take the cover off the ECU to check it. He found mine to be ok, so maybe he knew what to look at like the items you mentioned. He tried another ECU in it, a P75 and it started right up. The fuel pump primed when it was supposed to. He later tried my old ECU in another car and it started and ran fine there too!

The only thing we could figure is that the car was either the victim of a theft early in its life, the 1.7 vtec engine stolen and the 1.8 put in its place afterwards or the engine blew and was replaced with the 1.8. It is not the original engine according to the VIN#. It runs fine now and now putting the little things back together, then paint, then sell it. It really seems like a nice car and if I needed one, I would keep it.

Thanks for the insight though to your problem and fix.

Russ