I bought a non running 1992 integra. It has a GS-R badge on the back and VTEC on the front fender molding. What it HAS though is the B18a1 engine in it. I think the wiring has been changed a bit in the engine bay. It has ABS and over all is a pretty nice car. Initial problem was not getting fuel to the engine.
It has always had spark but put new plugs, wires and dist cap anyway. I tried hot wiring the fuel pump and got fuel going to the injectors but the injectors weren’t firing/squirting fuel. There was never a pulse to them, both wires stayed lit. I tried ether and got the car to start and when it did it idled fine and reved up really nice.
Well to get to the present. I read about the fuel pump relay and got another to see what it would do. What is happening now is the check engine light stays on and the car won’t start. I have been checking grounds, unplugging and plugging connectors, verifying fuses. The car turns over, has great compression and strong spark. I figured out a way to energize the fuel pump relay accidentally, the c/e light went out, the fuel pump primed and it started like it was supposed to. If I stayed in the car and kept trying to start it, it would, but with a slight delay with the c/e light. If I wait for a few minutes, it takes the c/e light longer to go out. If I wait hours to try it, it can take sometimes a few minutes to get the c/e light to go out, but most of the time it does. If I wait overnight, it won’t go out and I have to energize it again from outside the car under the hood,
Is there a timer in the ecu or something that anyone has run into before? It has a different ecu in it. It has B18a1 written in yellow, like a junkyard item written on the current ecu. Adds to the engine swap suspicion. I feel like it might be the ecu for some reason. There is no real history I can follow from before the previous owner, who never had it running by the way. It is a project car, I got it real cheap…(wonder why!..lol) but I can feel that I am getting close.
Sorry to ramble. I can give any other info anyone might need to help me figure this out. I am at the point where I am considering another wiring harness as the current one does not have the plug for the egr and a few extras that look like they would go on the engine if it had the VTEC head. And another ecu if I can find one.
The ecu number is 37820-PR4-A11 ABJ then 490-112792. I don’t have a pressure guage that fits the bleed bolt on the fuel filter and no other place to check it. But I know it has plenty to start the car with as it starts right up after the fuel pump relay clicks on for the 2 second energizing for the fuel pump. And that is my main problem!
The fuel pump relay clicks when I turn the key on. The problem is the second relay isn’t being energized right away. That is the relay that takes time to energize and when it does and clicks off, the check engine light goes off and I can start the car. The problem is the time it takes to get that second relay energized. It seems that the power for that part comes from the ecu and not sure why there is a delay, even for turning the key all the way to turning the engine over. When it does energize for the fiirst time after sitting a while, each time after seems to be a shorter wait, especially after I start it. But any lengthy delay after that causes the relay (and it happens the same with both relays I have), to take longer to energize again.
So that is my problem again. I have another ecu on the way and I am probably getting another engine wiring harness. I think the one in the engine bay is still the vtec harness, but it doesn’t have the egr plug. I am still checking wiring, tightening grounds and have checked all the fuses I could find, in and out.
Again, when the second part of the fuel pump relay kicks on, the pump starts, then it stops like its supposed to, the check engine light goes out and it starts just fine…its just the length of time it takes for the second relay to energize that is my problem.
Thanks and keep the suggestions and questions coming. I appreciate all the help.
well here ya go…sigh. I tried checking for codes…none! I jumped the correct plug…turned the key on, waited for the delay in the system, the fuel pump energized for 2 secs, the check engine light went our and…nothing. The light never came back on. I had the engine running until the cooling fan came on, cant drive it yet, no tags, but reved it, held it at several rpm points. Shut it off, then tried for codes…nothing. The c/e light never came on after turning the ignition switch on, didn’t start it of course. Let it sit for a few minutes just in case…but still nothing.
Still waiting for the replacement ecu and have a bid in for an engine wiring harnes. So maybe one of those might cure it. One question. Under the intake on the back of the block, there is a sending unit of some sort that has 2 male, round plugs on it. I was looking around for wiring problems and missing stuff and found that switch, or sending unit. There is no plug like it on my harness and can’t seem to find anything in the Haynes manual. Any ideas?
Well, there ya go. I did the code thing…and maybe nothing really is wrong with the things the ecu checks, but still have that delay problem with the check engine light and the second relay of the ruel pump relay energizing immediately when the switch is turned on.
that should be the fan switch. does it use a 24mm socket? (i think that was the size)
that would indicate that the engine is from a 90-91, as the 92-93 used a switch located on the thermostat housing
is there a light on the ecu? in the center?
[QUOTE=welfare;2163943]that should be the fan switch. does it use a 24mm socket? (i think that was the size)
that would indicate that the engine is from a 90-91, as the 92-93 used a switch located on the thermostat housing
is there a light on the ecu? in the center?[/QUOTE]
You are right about the size of that switch, but really, a fan switch! Now the fan did come on about when it should have when I was running it and there is nothing on that switch right now. It makes this car even more of a mystery.
No, there is no light in the center of the ECU. I Just keep wondering if there might have been a big mix of parts with this car. No codes, so I am wondering if it is an obd0? There are a few connectors under the distributor that connect to nothing, one and two prong femal connectors and one that is in the rear of the engine that does not fit that fan switch you mentioned earlier but in that location. It has female spade conectors where the switch at the back side of the block has 2 round male prongs on it.
So are you completely confused yet?! Its almost funny if it wasn’t so sad. I did not do a vin research to see if anything might have been mentioned there either. I really hate to see these kind of problems with this car. I can tell it is a well built car, solid and everything else works, sunroof and ABS.
[QUOTE=welfare;2164044]some good, clear pics of the spare plugs you speak of would really help.
as for the fan, they probably used a 92+ thermostat housing[/QUOTE]
You are probably right on the fan switch. Ok, I will get some pictures up tomorrow of those worthless plugs.
Hope these show up! There are 2 pictures with connectors circled. One has 2 and the other is the EGR plug. Not sure what the 2 connectors are for, so hope some one can let me know. The others I just through in. Like I said, I am happy with what I have to work with, just the check engine/fuel pump relay having a delay that makes starting the car a problem. It starts right up when the fuel pump gets energized, but the delay is very annoying and shouldn’t happen.
I have an ecu coming and a different wiring harness for the engine bay and hope with those changes, it will correct those problems. Still no codes to pull though in case you were wondering.
Well then, unless wiring harnesses come with all the connectors for every possiblilty, the harness at least was for a vtec. Any Idea if the 1.7 vtec came with the egr or not? That might explain why there is no plug for the egr on the 1.8 engine that is in my car now.
Thanks, still waiting for the replacement ecu. Sure was hoping for today. Let me ask your opinion on this. I also have a different engine harness coming that is for a 1.8 engine with the egr, which again is what I currently have, do you think I should put that harness in before I hook up this other ecu, or should that make a differenct? Just curious.
i would try changing one part at a time. this way you isolate the problem. it’s tough to say what’s going on when people start swapping obd0 parts into an obd1 vehicle. i mean, if everything is the way it came from the factory, troubleshooting these cars is pretty straightforward. but who knows what else has been changed. tough to say, especially without seeing it personally.
let us know how it goes with the ecu, then harness
[QUOTE=welfare;2164393]i would try changing one part at a time. this way you isolate the problem. it’s tough to say what’s going on when people start swapping obd0 parts into an obd1 vehicle. i mean, if everything is the way it came from the factory, troubleshooting these cars is pretty straightforward. but who knows what else has been changed. tough to say, especially without seeing it personally.
let us know how it goes with the ecu, then harness[/QUOTE]
I agree with you with the orginal vs part swapping. It is amost impossible to isolate a problem like that. I don’t know why, but the more I have worked on the car, trying to sort out stuff, then letting it run for a while until the fan came on has helped. Before, waiting for the check engine light to go out along with the fuel pump relay getting energized it was a hit or miss deal with the best being almost 10 minutes to work. I let it sit overnite and all day, then just went out and turned the key on. It only took about 45 seconds for all that to happen, without any help from me and tried once more after that and only 15 seconds.
This is almost an eternity when it is supposed to be no delay to start the car, so either the ecu is learning or it is just magic! Going with magic but leaning more toward the ecu learning something. I will keep you posted for any more progress. I really appreciate all the help so far.
the wiring on the engine is obd1 an as far as a egr only auto have it your car is a 5 speed so no egr an I think only 92/93 gsr were 5 speed so the motor sjould be a 1.7 gsr an it a 1.8 ls,rs,gs, so your computer should be a obd1 with three gray plugs take an post a pic of it
[QUOTE=rnoswal;2163836]
The fuel pump relay clicks when I turn the key on. The problem is the second relay isn’t being energized right away. [/quote]
When you say “second” relay, you mean one of the two within the MFR? Have you taken apart the main fuel relay to see if the connections inside are good? When it takes time for the CEL to turn off and you’re able to start the car - is it consistently the same amount of time, or does it seem to be random? Sometimes taking a few moments and sometimes taking a long time?
[QUOTE=rnoswal;2163836]
So that is my problem again. I have another ecu on the way and I am probably getting another engine wiring harness. I think the one in the engine bay is still the vtec harness, but it doesn’t have the egr plug.[/quote]
DO NOT get a new engine harness. This will make your problem worse. You want to use the original harness for the CHASSIS. The wiring in the connectors on the main harness are different for the GSR and rs/ls/gs models, so you need the main harness to match the engine harness or you’ll be routing signals to the wrong place. Of course you could re-pin the connectors - but in this case that’s pointless, you already have the right harness.
The EGR only came on auto trans cars, you have a manual trans, so you do not need to plug it in. I’m pretty positive you can just leave it unhooked. But it’s worth doing some searches about “deleting” or removing the EGR system. You could also look at the auto to manual trans write-up, as it will talk about the EGR system and what you can do with it when you install a manual transmission and manual ECU.
[QUOTE=rnoswal;2163942]
Under the intake on the back of the block, there is a sending unit of some sort that has 2 male, round plugs on it. I was looking around for wiring problems and missing stuff and found that switch, or sending unit. There is no plug like it on my harness and can’t seem to find anything in the Haynes manual. Any ideas?[/quote]
Read THIS thread. It will explain the various “units” you’re dealing with and how they change from 90-91 to 92+. It sounds like your engine is a 90-91. In which case you need to cut off the plug on your engine harness and extend the wires to the ECT switch. However, if you said the fans already go on, then someone may have already made it so the fans work properly. Go look at your thermostat housing, does it have an ECT switch on it? Or is it bare of anything with a wire connected to it? It’s possible that someone installed a 92+ thermostat housing with the ECT switch and then just plugged the engine harness in as it normally would on a 92+.
THIS is what a 92+ thermostat housing and ECT switch looks like.
[QUOTE=rnoswal;2163942]
There is no plug like it on my harness and can’t seem to find anything in the Haynes manual. [/quote]
Throw your Haynes in the trash! Or burn it! It’s complete crap and you’re completley wasting your time with it. it doesn’t have enough information and a lot of info is either missing or incorrect. The Helms is the only manual worth using.
Welfare is correct, that is your vtec wiring. Just leave it alone, it’s perfectly OK for it to be disconnected and will cause ZERO problems. I ran a car like that for YEARS. And as I stated before, only auto trans cars came w/ an EGR system. So yes, that’s why you don’t have that wiring.
[QUOTE=rnoswal;2164367]
Thanks, still waiting for the replacement ecu. Sure was hoping for today. Let me ask your opinion on this. I also have a different engine harness coming that is for a 1.8 engine with the egr, which again is what I currently have, do you think I should put that harness in before I hook up this other ecu, or should that make a differenct? Just curious.[/quote]
As I stated before, do not use anything but the GSR engine harness. You’re asking for more trouble if you try swapping.
OK, so after all of this reading in both of your threads this actually sounds like an extremely easy problem to troubleshoot. And this troubleshooting starts at the main fuel relay and will lead to other wiring and the ecu. Follow the troubleshooting procedure beginning on 11-119 in the Helms manual. The procedure will guide you thru checking the main fuel relay, and all of the wiring involved in that system.
You have to remember that you seem to have some sort of temperamental and intermittent problem. The main fuel relay is known for such finicky problems. However if the problem was caused by an incorrect wiring harness you’d expect it to be a consistent problem…
what actually happens when you try to start it with the engine light on? ie crank, no start. no crank
if it cranks/ no start, as i said before, it would be great if you could hook a fuel gauge up to the rail. that i would think should be the first step
[QUOTE=welfare;2165164]what actually happens when you try to start it with the engine light on? ie crank, no start. no crank
if it cranks/ no start, as i said before, it would be great if you could hook a fuel gauge up to the rail. that i would think should be the first step[/QUOTE]
If he can hear the fuel pump priming or not priming (as he said he did) then he’s pretty certain that there’s no fuel at that point. Regardless of whether he’s getting fuel or if the car is starting, his first problem is he’s not getting the normal 2 seconds of priming, telling us that somehow something is wrong with the signals the main fuel relay is getting (or not getting in this case). He can check the fuel pressure, but he’s not really learning anything, just confirming. He needs to start w/ the troubleshooting procedure I mentioned.
I may be wrong here sorry if I am but he said he had a egr plug right? so if he does then that means he does not have a gsr harness right as there were no 92/93 auto gsr right just wanted to get it clear as if that is the case maybe just maybe it could be something in the wiring??? but i say check the main fuel relay I pretty sure thread on how to fix it some were on here
