Looking good! I measure my oil temps at a sandwich plate between the filter and the block; it will be interesting to compare temps (I top out close to, or over, 300F!)
You will LOVE the RE-71Rs. From the reviews and data, they’re basically cheater r-comps branded as a 200TW street tire! Those, and the Kumho V720 and BFG Rival S, are probably the top tires next year. They will wear faster than your old tires, so you’ll want to pay attention to rotating them for maximum life.
PS- with the better tires, and more driving experience, you’ll probably have even more issues with the brakes- Fade at the front and lock-up at the rear. You’ll have to make sure the car is “squared” (little to no steering input) before you squeeze the brakes into T5 at Summit, or else that right rear will light up like a Christmas tree! (I have a few flat-spots to prove it…)
[QUOTE=hufflepuff;2330625]Looking good! I measure my oil temps at a sandwich plate between the filter and the block; it will be interesting to compare temps (I top out close to, or over, 300F!)
You will LOVE the RE-71Rs. From the reviews and data, they’re basically cheater r-comps branded as a 200TW street tire! Those, and the Kumho V720 and BFG Rival S, are probably the top tires next year. They will wear faster than your old tires, so you’ll want to pay attention to rotating them for maximum life.
PS- with the better tires, and more driving experience, you’ll probably have even more issues with the brakes- Fade at the front and lock-up at the rear. You’ll have to make sure the car is “squared” (little to no steering input) before you squeeze the brakes into T5 at Summit, or else that right rear will light up like a Christmas tree! (I have a few flat-spots to prove it…)[/QUOTE]
300F is sizzling man! are you running an oil cooler? And yes I will give you a report on what I have been witnessing with the temps. Any specific reason you mounted it in the sandwich adapter?
Super excited about these tires. I will pay attn to rotating them. I am getting an alignment when I drop the car off to get the tires mounted. Any advice on that? Should I just get the car aligned to stock specs?
Ugh these brakes. I locked up 3 or 4 times entering T5 in June. Once was really bad I carried alot more speed than I typically was following an STI and almost went off track, blew a ton of smoke, went full retard on not pumping the brakes. And the very end of the braking zone in T1 was the other place I was having issues. After reading up on suspension adjustments I found out that my rear shocks were set to max firm. On these Koni’s only the rebound is adjustable, so I am assuming that being set like that was hindering the rear suspensions ability to quickly apply weight to the rear wheels and contributing to the rear lockup. I have since adjusted all 4 corners to max soft per the koni adjustment instructions and will progressively firm them up to where the weight transfer feels comfortable. And it makes alot of sense because I remember the car not transferring weight and rolling slowly, it felt like it had lag in it, almost to the point where the car wouldnt plant the weight until you were well beyond turn in.
300F is sizzling man! are you running an oil cooler? And yes I will give you a report on what I have been witnessing with the temps. Any specific reason you mounted it in the sandwich adapter?
No oil cooler. I thought about it, but modern oils have very high temperature thresholds, and the oil cooler and lines are basically adding another potential failure point. Been racing with those temps for a few seasons now without obvious detriment. I also looked at the spec Miata guys; they are not allowed to run oil coolers and they regularly push 300F and have an inferior cooling system design.
Super excited about these tires. I will pay attn to rotating them. I am getting an alignment when I drop the car off to get the tires mounted. Any advice on that? Should I just get the car aligned to stock specs?
I run zero toe at the front, and just a hair toe in at the rear (1/16" total, max, or 1/32" each side). This promotes fairly good tire wear and stability. If you daily drive it, i’d actually go for a hair toe in (1/32" total?) to promote good on-center steering feel and anti-shimmy. Some folks may talk you into front toe out (1/16" total) to “enhance turn-in”, at the cost of some tire wear; I haven’t tried this because i’d rather get more life from the tires. If you have adjustable camber, i’d go for -3.0 degrees in the front and -2.5ish degrees in the rear to get solid contact patches at each corner. I use washers and extended bolts at the UCA to shim my rear camber. My front is not adjustable.
Ugh these brakes. I locked up 3 or 4 times entering T5 in June. Once was really bad I carried alot more speed than I typically was following an STI and almost went off track, blew a ton of smoke, went full retard on not pumping the brakes. And the very end of the braking zone in T1 was the other place I was having issues. After reading up on suspension adjustments I found out that my rear shocks were set to max firm. On these Koni’s only the rebound is adjustable, so I am assuming that being set like that was hindering the rear suspensions ability to quickly apply weight to the rear wheels and contributing to the rear lockup. I have since adjusted all 4 corners to max soft per the koni adjustment instructions and will progressively firm them up to where the weight transfer feels comfortable. And it makes alot of sense because I remember the car not transferring weight and rolling slowly, it felt like it had lag in it, almost to the point where the car wouldnt plant the weight until you were well beyond turn in.
Good call. I run my Tokicos a click off full stiff; I feel it lets the suspension move freely and do it’s job. I also used to get right rear lock-up even going straight into T1. The solution has been two-fold:
Even less aggressive rear pads (centric metallic cheap $9 pads from rockauto)
Increased right rear corner weight by extending the front left and right rear spring perches. My right rear corner weight WAS ~400lbs compared to ~500 for the left rear, but after working on corner weights that is improving.
If your ride height is adjustable, i’d actually start with #2 and jump on the scales at tech when they are open and ask them to write down your corner weights. From there you can make small changes to bring them closer to where they should be. There’s an S2000 website that has a good calculator to do corner weights.
Tires are mounted. Alignment is done, thanks for the specs Matt they were able to set everything up, the camber up front is 1.75’ on each side but that’s non adjustable.
I am almost ready for the fall event. Have a really nice catch can from SaikouMichi.com on the way and I need to install some gutter screen in front of my radiator to prevent it being punctured, right now its wide open and waiting for a disaster.
I can’t wait to hear how you like the tires And I’m a little surprised you weren’t able to get more negative camber up front, the car must be a little higher than it appears to me in the photos.
I can’t wait to drive on them! Yea i am unsure about the front camber also. Ive replaced the front upper control arms with some aftermarket OE copies.
I had the car weighed last event. It is as follows w/o driver:
729 733 RF
453 428
2343 total, ride height is 4.5" front 5" rear measured from the pinch seam closest to each wheel, now I rounded those figures, every corner was +/- ~1/8" i am sure this variation must play into the difference in weight distribution, especially in the rear. My battery is mounted in the passenger side rear.
I couldn’t seem to find my corner weights to compare. Your corner weights are pretty darn good for what I assume is just “guessing” your ride height. And actually I’ve had pretty good luck with that as well. I’ve always just set the rear lower than the front and the driver side higher than the passenger side. When I first had it corner weighted the cross weights weren’t bad at all for a guess.
After a fantastic weekend of ups and downs at Fall Finale '15 I can say that I am addicted to road course racing. Special thanks to Matt (hufflepuff) for some great instruction all weekend, we sorted out some lines that feel great and the car likes. These tires are probably the 2nd most effective and transforming upgrade I have ever done to this car. I cannot say enough about how much confidence having a good set of tires will bring. I was literally driving on 4 ice cubes before. Car is on rails through the turns, braking is amazing but more on that later, and I can now put the power down and boy she moves. Some downsides, I have certainly reached the limits of the HP+ pads. I roasted them going into turn 1 trying to brake later and ran off track, in that particular situation if the brakes would have continued to provide the stopping power they had initially, we would not have gone off. I also had several other instances of significant fade. I cannot run full throttle to the braking points of turns 1, 3, and 10 I have to let off early and coast in, if I do I start having fade problems the rest of the lap and end up having to drive 75% to cool down. During my solo session I could feel a huge difference in not having the extra weight in the car and it felt good. But I was not carrying the speed I should be in several turns, it helps to have some instruction haha. I am going to install a set of racing seats, a rollbar, and a set of harnesses this winter. The gopro footage reveals alot of bouncing around, and my shoulder was screwed Sunday night. I had what felt like rug burn on it and its sore from the metal digging into it. One of my friends in my run group went off in turn 4 and crinkled up his DB2 pretty bad, it was a violent collision, he is ok and walked away. We were the 2nd car through there and ended up creaming a fairly large rock and dented my header. No, I am not posting a picture of the car just out of respect. That accident opened my eyes to safety, and doing it properly.
Yes. Yes. YES! So much win in that post (and vids). From the beginning of this thread I just knew that once you got on some decent tires the car would be a different beast and you’d have one of those eye opening experiences - loved your ice cube analogy btw It’s funny to see someone going through some of the same stuff I did in terms of tires, reaching the limits of your brakes, realizing you need to put some work into safety items…etc I think you’re on the right track for sure and I’m stoked to see that you’re HOOKED! I know I was hooked after the first track day I ever did, once I saw what was possible on track vs on the street I was blown away and just had to have more. It’s a damn disease I tell ya!
Hahaha yeah it was so awful on those older tires but in retrospect I am really happy I went out and drove on them for my first event. I taught me a lot about car control, brake modulation and feeling what losing traction is like at a safer speed. Now I feel like I can absolutely rip it through the carousel and those old tires taught me what the limit of pushing it through there feels like and I just transferred that to the new tires, and as that 1st video shows it paid off. I am going to buy a set of DTC-60’s and run the stock brakes for the first event next year and see how that goes. I have a feeling that on street tires it should be adequate. The temp rating on them is double what it is for HP+. I was a bit spoiled with this tire/pad combo because I could literally STAND on the pedal and she wouldnt lock up, just fade to all hell. I am definitely hooked, I just wish I got into this years ago but better late than never. It is like a disease, it is all I find myself thinking about, its such a shame that I have to wait until April until the next event but at least that gives plenty of time to knock out the safety items.
This is all great stuff, you look fast out there! This year was also my first year getting on the track. It’s definitely addicting and it changes your perspective. I can relate to all of the things you mentioned about learning as you went on inadequate tires, brakes etc. although I learned all that during autocross and continued to beef the car up before getting to a track day. I spent the last few years at auto x identifying weak points and feeling what it was like to lock up my brakes, boil my fluid and spin out . I hope to see more DA’s on the track in coming years!
As for the seat, harness and roll bar IMO it is a must for the track! I have a bucket seat and I can’t tell you how nice it is to feel comfortable, planted and safe in the car. It will not only improve your times but help your reaction speed in a time of need. Once you get the seat installed follow some of guides online to get the seat position setup correctly and second make sure the pedal adjustments feel good as well.
[QUOTE=jdecks23;2331077]This is all great stuff, you look fast out there! This year was also my first year getting on the track. It’s definitely addicting and it changes your perspective. I can relate to all of the things you mentioned about learning as you went on inadequate tires, brakes etc. although I learned all that during autocross and continued to beef the car up before getting to a track day. I spent the last few years at auto x identifying weak points and feeling what it was like to lock up my brakes, boil my fluid and spin out . I hope to see more DA’s on the track in coming years!
As for the seat, harness and roll bar IMO it is a must for the track! I have a bucket seat and I can’t tell you how nice it is to feel comfortable, planted and safe in the car. It will not only improve your times but help your reaction speed in a time of need. Once you get the seat installed follow some of guides online to get the seat position setup correctly and second make sure the pedal adjustments feel good as well.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info, I saw your thread and your car looks great. Keep at it!
So the pictures are up from the weekend. One pic really caught my attention, I felt a significant increase in body roll with the new tires, but I did not realize it was this much. Here is a before and after pic from the June event to this weekend. Let me know what your guys input is, the car felt great as far as stability and it was neutral. Should I just keep on running this setup until I get to the absolute limit? Or get a rear swaybar? Maybe a set of springs?
It never hurts to keep driving it as-is and simply improve your skill level. But with that said… I’d definitely upgrade the sway bars. Just keep an eye out for some used ST sway bars or maybe even a Progress or OEM ITR rear bar. Then when you’re ready you could go with an ASR or Eibach ITR bar. I started with ST, have a Progress rear now with ST front and a couple years back ordered an ASR brace + Eibach ITR adjustable which I’ve still yet to install.
The other thing worth mentioning is that it’s hard looking at pics and knowing for sure. Those pics are at slightly different parts of the corner and it’s hard to know if your lines are different - one could be coming in too hot and plowing through the corner and the other could be a smooth entry/exit. Plus, looks like most of that roll is in the front and a rear bar isn’t going to do much about that.
[QUOTE=Colin;2331124]It never hurts to keep driving it as-is and simply improve your skill level. But with that said… I’d definitely upgrade the sway bars. Just keep an eye out for some used ST sway bars or maybe even a Progress or OEM ITR rear bar. Then when you’re ready you could go with an ASR or Eibach ITR bar. I started with ST, have a Progress rear now with ST front and a couple years back ordered an ASR brace + Eibach ITR adjustable which I’ve still yet to install.
The other thing worth mentioning is that it’s hard looking at pics and knowing for sure. Those pics are at slightly different parts of the corner and it’s hard to know if your lines are different - one could be coming in too hot and plowing through the corner and the other could be a smooth entry/exit. Plus, looks like most of that roll is in the front and a rear bar isn’t going to do much about that.[/QUOTE]
Is the ITR rear bar a direct bolt on? If not the progress 22mm looks like a good option.
I believe the ITR is bolt on, but you should search to confirm. It’s not a common mod but I think Battlecat may have done it 10-15yrs ago even. The Progress bar is nice performing, but I’m not a huge fan of the design/fitment. It’s not as easy to install and work around the suspension as other designs. I’m hoping my new combo will be better. The ST design is basically stock fitment though.
I’m confused now. You say the bar helped a considerable amount but I seem to remember hufflepuff removing his aftermarket rear bar and it not significantly changing the handling. I’m just unsure of wether or not the car needs a bar or stiffer springs. Springs are relatively cheap ~$60 a piece from Summit Racing for 2.5" wide Eibachs in any rate. So it looks like money wise it’s a wash between springs and a bar.
When I removed my progress 22mm bar and put the oem back on, it reduced the oversteer and made the car easier to drive at the limit. Perhaps a better driver would have been faster with the “looser” setup. But the rear bar probably won’t do much to tame roll at the front end. I switched from 10k/8k to 12k/10k to combat the body roll, and am satisfied with the handling and balance.
And I’m a little surprised you weren’t able to get more negative camber up front, the car must be a little higher than it appears to me in the photos.
It’s funny to see someone going through some of the same stuff I did in terms of tires, reaching the limits of your brakes, realizing you need to put some work into safety items…etc I think you’re on the right track for sure and I’m stoked to see that you’re HOOKED! I know I was hooked after the first track day I ever did, once I saw what was possible on track vs on the street I was blown away and just had to have more. It’s a damn disease I tell ya!
