I’ve tried searching but didn’t really find anything about brakes (where there wasn’t actually an issue). I recently purchased a 1991 Integra GS Hatchback for me and the GF to commute with. The brakes are working fine but she doesn’t like the feeling of braking in the Integra. She owns a 2006 BMW and is used to cars having a much better braking bite and I’m concerned that she won’t feel safe in the Integra. She especially doesn’t feel like braking is adequate on the freeway.
What’s the cheapest/most efficient way to get more braking power for our car? Is it using other stock Honda parts from a newer Integra/Civic? Can I buy a relatively cheap kit? I don’t want to put too much money into the car as we just use it to commute and have our weekend cars on the side. I would prefer it there was a newer kit option since I don’t really want to deal with sourcing used Honda parts.
Since this is a street car (and because you don’t want to spend an arm and a leg) I wouldn’t even consider any sort of big brake kit or upgrade (BBK) (the exception to this can be seen below). You can get more than adequate braking from the stock sized parts, especially for street tires. You may get more braking force from a BBK but for it to really work properly you’ll want better rubber to actually turn that braking force into better braking.
Here’s how I’d attack the situation:
Inspect EVERYTHING. Tear everything apart, look for wear on the rotors and pads. Also check to see if you have any problems with the calipers. If there are any issues here you may need rebuilt calipers, or simply cleaning them up and re-lubing the slide pins may be enough. Only if you need to replace the calipers would I consider upgrading to a larger caliper/rotor setup since the cost may not be that different if you need to replace the calipers anyway. Regardless of if you end up keeping the stock sized brakes or doing something a little different the following still hold true. But this is the most important part because if you do other upgrades and there are underlying problems with some of your parts then you’ll likely just be wasting your money on the other stuff.
Brake fluid. Flush the system and replace it with some good stuff (Motul and ATE Blue are great options). Bleed the brakes and make sure you’re not neglecting this later on down the road.
Brake lines. By now the stock brake lines are very old and probably not in tip top shape. A good set of braided stainless steel brake lines should help improve pedal feel. On a street car, under normal driving conditions, this upgrade may not be a big one if your stock lines were brand new, but compared to old ones you may feel the difference even during just street driving. Plus, with a 20yo car this can be considered preventative maintenance.
Rotors. Don’t bother upgrading your rotors to something fancy. You don’t need slotted or cross-drilled or anything like that. Personally I like to use whatever’s cheapest and just consider them a “wear” part that needs regular replacement. OEM or Brembo “blanks” are good but personally I get the same results using cheap rotors from the local autoparts store which cost half to 1/3 as much.
Pads. Upgrade to a good pad. There are a lot of pads out there made for street cars that also see some performance track driving, these types of pads are generally great daily driving pads as well with the exceptions that they may produce a lot of brake dust and/or be a little noisy. Axxis Ultimates or Hawk HP+ are on the more aggressive side of this category. I like both compounds a lot, but they do dust heavily. Hawk HPS is another option that should be more mellow. But check out other people’s reviews and what is recommended by various companies like AEM, Hawk, Axxis…
Make sure to bed your pads per the instructions included with them.
Great! Thanks Colin, I’ll be sure to follow your advice to checking the parts and maybe swapping for a new set of pads/brake fluid, and replacing new brake lines.
Colin hit the nail on the head. Stick with a decent OEM sized rotor, a good set of pads, and flush the fluid. You’d be surprised at how well the OEM setup really is when you use good poducts.
There can also be issues with the brake master cylinder if all of the above is not the issue. There are also plenty of threads regarding that issue. I have replaced my master cylinder as well as done all of Colin’s suggestions except replacing all of the calipers (being the most expensive), so just start from the cheapest solution.
Yeah, I’m running stock sized brakes, Autozone rotors, Hawk HP+ pads and my weak links are my tires and heat. I’ve had problems flat spotting my tires because they’re so easy to lock up, and I’ve also had problems with a little bit of fade and some material transfer causing a vibration (both due to excess heat). But keep in mind, this is a track car, and one track day is more abuse than you’d see in a year of street driving…
The only decent pic I could find is of when I was still using Axxis Ultimates, which dust more than the HP+. Doesn’t look like a lot of dust, but keep in mind that this was only about 50mi of driving from Long Beach to Corona.
This other pic, which is hard to really see well, is how much dust had accumulated after about 110mi of freeway driving and 2-3 20min sessions at Streets of Willow.
So this is your set up for track use? I am wanting to do some track driving and was thinking about the legend calipers. Do you think that is overkill? I can just rebuild my stock calipers and save a lot of cash if the stock ones will be fine for track use. Sorry for jacking the thread but this is useful info.
This is a hard question to answer 100% correctly. It’s more one of those things where “If this, then this. If that, then something else…” But I’ll throw a couple comments out there and you can see how you feel about 'em and where you may fall into the whole spectrum of things.
First off, the answer you’re going to get from anyone serious about racing or track days is this: stop thinking about the car and start thinking about YOU. In regard to your car, there are only TWO things you should be worried about initially. 1) Is the care reliable enough to get me thru the track day? and 2) Is the car safe enough to get me thru the track day? You shouldn’t even be thinking about “are my brakes big enough, do I have enough power…” I can say 100% that your car is prepped beyond what your ability level is. And this is not an insult. You could be a natural and your car could be stock, and that statement would still hold true. The point is that someone with more skill could get into your car and turn faster times than you and if you’re serious about performance driving then you’ll realize how much there is to be gained by improving your skills. Plus, an over prepared car will mask deficiencies in your skills and make it hard to improve. I am constantly giving myself this pep talk because I’m driving an overly prepared car myself. But in reality its SO hard to focus on your driving and not get distracted by wanting new parts
As for you current predicament… If your brakes are reliable and safe, I say just run 'em. If they are on their way out and need replacing anyway, then even though it’s probably smarter to stick with a stockish setup in regard to focusing on learning, you’ll most likely want to look for some sort of upgrade. How big of an upgrade depends on a lot of factors, such as how much the car will be on the track, how much power you have, how much money you want to spend…etc. But in regard to brakes, if you need to replace some parts anyway there’s nothing wrong with doing an upgrade. I would recommend against going too aggressive with pad compound because of the downsides of a full track pad. But as far as going bigger (especially with an OEM upgrade like the legend calipers) I think that would be just fine. You don’t need the upgrade, but doing so won’t be very counterproductive either.
As I mentioned before I’ve been having some issues w/ my brake setup and have to admit that I’ve been thinking a lot about an upgrade myself (remember how I said I’m constantly trying to remind myself to focus on driving but how hard it is not to get distracted by mods?). My concern is not so much that they don’t provide the amount of braking I need, moreso that they’re being pushed too hard and thus being stressed too much. They’re getting really hot and I’m also seeing what may be excessive wear on some components. I may likely have more power (and weight) than my brakes can really handle effectively, but I think I’ve yet to fully max out their potential. I recently installed all new bushings, ball joints, wheel bearings…etc, some new rubber and have my alignment scheduled for Wed of next week. This may increase my cornering speeds slightly (which means less braking will be needed). I’ve also got some brake ducting ideas I’d like to try which may fix my problems. And then of course there’s my driving which needs some serious attention as well.
What mods do you have done to your car? Have you ever done a track day, autox, or even one of those go-kart places (something like K1, not the shitty little places connected to mini golf courses)?
Colin, thank you so much for the detailed response. I have actually never driven my car. I bought it as a shell over two years ago and have been putting it on the back burner but want it done for the summer. It will have a B16 and a LS transmission to start, will upgrade the gearing later. I have never tracked a car on a track but have done some autoX in my old civic and have done some karting at some higher end places and am actually better than I thought. I have thought a lot about the driving part but lack the actuall track time. I hear you on the take it easy and focus on your own skills and not the cars. I think the calipers,rotors and pads will need to be changed and that’s why I was thinking about the legend upgrade. I have also had a few ducting ideas but will tackle that later. My car will also have KW coilovers and ES bushings. That’s the set up I will start with and get used to the car like that before I start to think about how I will mod it later. Thanks again for the response.
You know you won’t get the quick aggressive bite/lock from the rotors if you have abs, also try to change brake pads ask folks what they run and work for them.
I’ll throw in my two cents. Like you I wanted bang for the buck. I have brembo blanks and hawk hps pads. My tires are toyo proxes 4. It is an improvement over the stock brakes. They show no signs of failure thus far during spirited driving and bite very well. My only compliant is that the hps pads are dusty. They cover my wheel in dust in a month ,but it is very easy to wipe it off. Also, the brembo blanks slightly lose braking power when not warmed up.
