what header should i get ?? Comptech 4-2-1,jdm itr 4-1 ,jun 4-2-1

ok i have a decision to make need your guys input
if anyone knows me i have been wanting to get a better header for my car for a long time(i currently have a 5 year old dc ceramic 4-2-1)
my setup
92 ls with b18c,aem cai,itr cams,skunk2 ect ect

ok first i can get a new Comptech 4-2-1 header for 400 shipped these sale for 530 new http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33631&item=1873121654&rd=1
this is a type r design but i was told the xmember doesnt need to bee notched and the outlet is 2 1/4 so no major modifying to install ( i think member leftcorner has this header)

2 option Jdmhondaparts.com has new jdm itr 4-1 header on speacial for $ 365 ,but then i need the flange to fit my stock cat $40,and i would like to get the top shield $40 (for stock look)i was told the xmember will have to be notch for this header

3 option i can get used JUN 4-2-1 header with 2 1/2 collector for about $540 i think the xmeber will beed to be notched also , ( i think member dan has this header) i will need to buy a flange for this setup also
i have heard good things about all the headers i like the comptech very nice quality and nice price easy install , but the jdm itr is nice also for stock look but a little more harder to install
and there JUN but it needs to be modify and is going to end cost around 600 all said and done
sorry about all the writing , any input appreaciated (this is going to be my x mas present to my self :smiley: )

JUN, hands down. Absolutely gorgeous, great craftsmanship, and it will really open up your exhaust system. If you’ve got the cash to throw down on one and you really need that good of a header, I think that’s the way to go. Leftcorner did buy the Comptech after much personal debate. As far as a full review, I’m sure he’d be happy to give one. I think they will all suit your needs, but damn is that JUN header purdy. :drool:

its not all about the brand of the header. you have to take into account the primary tube length/diameter, collecter length…etc. also you should be getting a header that will work best with your engine combination(intake,exhuast,cams…etc.)

might wanna read up on these articles written by Michael Delaney over at team-integra.com

http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=2

http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=50

heres an excerpt from it:

"A common question I often get on Honda forums is: should I get a 4-2-1 (tri-Y) header or should I get a 4-1?

You may want to understand some basics about header design before making your decision about purchasing one, so that your choice is an informed one. You have to remember that it is called an exhaust SYSTEM. Getting a header without considering how the header fits in with the cat and exhaust could prove to be a mistake you will regret in the future, if the header turns out to be incompatible with the other system parts. They work together as a unit to extract as much exhaust flow speed as possible.

In this section, I’ll try to show various aspects of header design and how these design characteristics affect your car’s power output.

HEADER DESIGN

The most common thing you hear is 4-2-1 makes more midrange power at the sacrifice of peak hp and 4-1 makes more peak power at the sacrifice of midrange power.

Is this always true?

Not these days, when we have long hybrid 4-2-1’s which combine the extra length of a traditional 4-1 and the layout of a traditional 4-2-1 (or tri-Y as they are sometimes called) into one header. Why is this new and different?

The header’s primary tubes, secondary tubes, and collectors length & diameter affect WHERE power is created along the rpm range.
"

cont.

"Exhaust gas flow velocity (or flow speed) determines where peak torque occurs along the rpm range. As a general rule, when exhaust flow velocity reaches the mean value of 240-260 ft/sec., peak torque is achieved.

Peak torque also marks when your engine has achieved it’s highest volumetric efficiency (or maximal cylinder filling ability). Control how fast you can get up to a mean flow velocity of 240-260 ft/sec by looking for certain header-exhaust characteristics or design and you control WHERE peak torque occurs.

Notice that even if you can get optimal cylinder filling to achieve optimal volumetric efficiency, other factors, like how much exhaust gas you can remove from the cylinder after combustion, affects the maximal “actual” torque you can squeeze out of your engine package.


GOALS OF AN ENTIRE EXHAUST SYSTEM

The 2 goals of a header-cat-exhaust system is to:

a) to efficiently remove as much of the combusted inert exhaust gases out of the cylinder.

Remember that burnt exhaust gas is inert or does not combust twice and therefore cannot make power if it is in the cylinder…it takes up space in the cylinder and prevents fresh air and fuel from coming into the combustion chamber to make power.

b) to keep the velocity or speed of the exhaust gas leaving very high.

When high exhaust gas speeds are reached, a wake is created from an exhaust pulse leaving the cylinder head (see SurferX’s exhaust article here for some nice pics of this wake or pulse). Behind this wake, a vacuum is created. This vacuum sucks in more fresh air and fuel at cam overlap, when the intake valve is just starting to open and the exhaust valve is almost about to close. Since both the intake & exhaust valves are partially open at this time of cam overlap, header is actually “connected” to the intake manifold & intake port for a brief period. The exiting exhaust gas helps pull in the next fresh intake air & fuel. This is called scavenging. And scavenging is what helps draw in more oxygen and fuel for combustion.

More fresh air and fuel coming in, with less inert burnt exhaust gases occupying combustion chamber volume, makes more power.

A. FIVE HEADER DESIGN FACTORS AFFECTING WHERE PEAK TORQUE OCCURS

There are several aspects of header and exhaust tubing that affect when a mean exhaust flow velocity of 240 ft/sec. is achieved:

  1. Diameter (or header tube cross-sectional area) :

Bigger diameter shifts peak torque to a higher rpm compared to a smaller diameter.

The bigger the diameter, the more cross-sectional area. Exhaust flow must overcome this extra tube cross-sectional area and therefore the flow travels slower . It takes the rpms to climb to a higher rpm before the speed of 240 ft/sec (and therefore, peak torque) is reached. So increasing diameter shifts when 240 ft/sec and peak torque is achieved to a higher or later rpm, because it takes longer for the air flow speed to reach 240 ft/sec.

In addition, a bigger diameter will increase the actual peak torque number (i.e. not only does diameter change the location, it also increases torque) .

You can also vary diameter, as well, along the length of the header tube: This is called “stepping” the header. A “stepped” header will have along it’s length the diameters gradually increasing as it moves towards the muffler end and away from the engine. Stepping a header will prevent exhaust flow from travelling backwards to the engine (called reversion). Stepped headers therefore have anti-reversion characteristics, as well as achieving a broader powerband.
"

cont.

"Longer tubes will create more torque at the rpms below peak torque.

How do they do this?

Longer tubes will speed up air flow velocity. The flow velocity of 240 ft/sec and peak torque will occur at an earlier rpm compared to a shorter tube. Changing the length of the header primary tubes does not increase the value of peak torque like diameter does. Instead length changes the behaviour of the torque around peak torque along the rpm band.

If you imagine the torque vs rpm curve from a dyno to be like a see-saw: then, on a see-saw there is a point where the plank sits to allow it to rock up and down. This is usually in the middle of the see saw and is also called the fulcrum. On our torque vs rpm curve, imagine the peak torque to be the fulcrum, although this fulcrum doesn’t necessarily have to be in the middle like the see-saw…it can be moved. Changing length “rocks” the torque curve about the peak torque.

If you have a longer primary header tube, the torque curve will “rock” in such a way that the left side is higher than the right side. There is higher torque at earlier rpms before peak torque. There is less torque at later rpms after peak torque.

If you shorten the length of the primary tube, the torque curve will will have the see-saw with the right side higher than the left. So there is more torque at later rpms after peak torque.

  1. Merge Collector Diameter, Length, Angle, and Layout:

In terms of header layout, merge collectors are the portions of the header where the tubes join.

So in a 4-2-1 header, the 4 primary tubes are first joined at a collector into 2 tubes. The 2 tubes are then joined by a second collector into 1 tube.

In a 4-1, the 4 primaries are joined at only 1 collector into 1 tube.

In some cases, the collectors are in a box shape where 2 tubes are stacked directly on top of the other 2 tubes. In other cases, the collectors have the top 2 tubes offset from the bottom 2 tubes. This is called a tri-Y collector. The box collectors give less header ground clearance than tri-Y collectors.

The collectors join the tubes and co-ordinate the 4 exhaust pulses leaving the primaries.

Shorter, large diameter collectors have more peak power.

Longer , smaller diameter collectors have more power in the midrange.

The angle of the merge collector tubes should not be steep or sharp, in order to keep the energy or speed of the merging pulses coming from the tubes at a high level.

For example, the stock ITR header has a less steep merge collector angle than the stock GSR header (see SurferX’s article on the features of the ITR). So, the diameter of the collector affects the flow volume or how much exhaust gas can be removed and how much peak hp can be achieved. The bigger the collector diameter, the higher the peak hp you can achieve. This is why the better headers have larger 2.5 in. collectors instead of the usual 2 in. collectors in some aftermarket headers made to match up to the stock catalytic converter 2 in. flange.

  1. How the Header Primaries Are Paired -> Sequentially versus Non-sequentially:

the ignition firing order determines which exhaust pulses leave in a particular order. In integras it’s cylinder # 1,3,4,2. How we pair the header’s 4 primary tubes together at the first header collector determines the horsepower vs rpm curve’s characteristics or shape. Sequential pairing allows for a broader powerband and better acceleration properties from an engine.

You can look at your header and see which tubes are paired together: Is it sequential: 1 with 2, and 3 with 4? Or is it non-sequential? 1-4, 2-3?

A 4-1 header layout will have peak torque occurring at later rpms compared to a 4-2-1.

Newer hybrid headers of the 21st century are a fusion of the old 4-1’s extra length with the 4-2-1 layout, have stepped diameters, and have large diameter collectors. So you have low end peak torque with enough breathing capacity to support more peak gains (the best of both worlds).


CONCLUSION

So the old adage that 4-1 = more peak hp with a loss in midrange torque and 4-2-1 = more midrange torque with less peak hp is an obsolete idea.
"

again credit is greatly given to Michael Delaney at team-integra for this info.

thanks for the helpful info

damn that sucks tat a itr header cost 350, thank god im best friends with a guy with a itr, he went the jdm header way, and i picked up the usdm header, and cat for free