^^^The B16 block may have a little better compression which may seem more appealing, but remember, both of those motors made the same HP but the B17 has more torque due to the more displacement and yet would be better for revving like that because of its great rod-to-stroke ratio therefore putting less strain on this motor making it slightly more reliable and also less worries of detonation and pinging because it has less compression.
-
9.7:1 vs. 10.4:1 is QUITE a compression difference. It’s more than just “a little better.”
-
The OBD1 B16A has about 10 more horsepower than the B17A1 (160hp vs. 170ps).
-
The B17A1 puts out only about ~5 more lb/ft torque than the B16A.
-
The B16A has a BETTER rod/stroke ratio (1.74:1) than the B17A1 (1.62:1). It is just as reliable, and probably MORE reliable.
-
If using premium gas (you’re supposed to anyway), the OBD1 B16A’s 10.4:1 compression ratio is not high enough to ping.
.
.
.
.
.
. -
You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. :bored:
buddy, u don’t know what the hell, ur talking about. its a fact, displacement will net more power than c.r. lately, i see people talk out of there ass. an ls motor has more compression than a jdm b20b. which will make more power? the ls motor that has .4 points more c.r.? are u fuckin’ kidding me? :gayfight: i’ve owned a b20v, built c1, built c5, b17 and b16 1st & 2nd gen. the 17 with lower compression still makes more power than the 16, all day long. misinformation is the new drug of choice. and to think ur user name is knowledge.
Please quote me in any of my posts in this thread where I said the B16A block will definitely MAKE MORE POWER than the B17A1 block…
That’s what I thought, dumbass…
In my first post, I told the OP MY PREFERENCE, and in my second post, I cleared up all of the misinformation that PACT Man put in the thread about rod/stroke ratios and horsepower figures for the 16A and the 17A1. All of the information I posted is 100% true.
Now that you think you’re so fucking smart…
When you say “power” do you mean horsepower? Or do you mean overall horsepower and torque?
The JDM B20B with 8.8:1 compression ratio makes 126hp. The B18A1 with 9.2:1 compression makes 130 hp in its WEAKEST form in 90-91 spec, and makes 140hp in 92-93 spec. It sounds to me like that .4 compression makes up in horsepower for that .2L of displacement. 130-140 > 126. That 1.8L engine makes more horsepower (not more torque) than that 2.0L for some reason. Could it be compression? :roll: :gayfight:
Are you saying that the block alone will net more power on a modified engine setup, or are you saying that the B17A1 makes more power than the OBD1 B16A? In a built engine, I agree with you 100%. But like I said: In stock form, the OBD1 B16A produces 170ps. In stock form, the B17A1 produces 160hp. Why is that? Could it be the .7:1 compression ratio difference that makes a smaller engine produce MORE horsepower???
The OP is going to be putting a stock head on a stock block. While all your uber cool modified engines may be proof that displacement is more significant than compression ratio, that doesn’t hold true for Honda engines in stock or near stock form.
In this scenario, if you think .7:1 (10.4:1 vs. 9.7:1) compression is less significant than 83cc of displacement (1595cc vs. 1678cc), I don’t know what to tell you…
if you really want a b17, get a b17. the difference vs. a b16 is not going to be much. infact, the b16 might even be a little quicker. 1 pt of compression is a lot. it just sounds like u “really want a b17”
as for the ECU, use either the p30 or p61. not a big difference, but the JDM version p30 will have higher redline. maybe 200 rpm difference. p72 ecus will also work, but no reason to use that ecu if you are not running secondary butterflies in your intake manifold.
b16’s are easier to find and most likely cheaper. once again, you are not going to notice a significant power increase between the b17 b16 unless you rebuild and throw in hi comp. pistons and cams.
secondly, an itr head itself will not net huge gains vs. a stock b16 head on a stock motor. maaaaaybe 5-6 whp. this is using the same cams and same intake manifold. I would then suggest using a p72 gs-r head for added compression.
Final suggestion…
use a jdm or usdm p30 or p61 ecu. it wont matter which one u choose.
use a JDM obd1 sirII b16 block with 10.4:1 comp,
use a p72 gs-r head for added compression
use a skunk2 or aebs intake manifold with 62mm-65mm t-body
use a mugen headgasket
use itr valvetrain
use bc3+ cams
use a b16 tranny w/ light flywheel
use any header and exhaust of your choice.
Final compression will be roughly 10.9-11.0:1, peak numbers of roughly 160-165 whp, and apprx 125 lbs torque
that will net you a reliable and respectably quick/fun street car. if you drag race, perhaps 14.6-14.9 sec passes in the 91-95 mph trapspeed range, on street tires, in a full body DA9 depending if you have a ls, gs or rs
good luck w/ the build :bowthank:
I want to make horsepower near 9,000 r.p.m. eventually.
I’m not sure which block will ultimately handle the high r.p.m. better.
I know someone who is selling a B17A1 short block near me.
Thank you for the facts everyone. Please post more information, not opinions.
They are almost the same, but the B16A has a better rod/stroke ratio.
Better R/S ratio = Better suited for high RPM operation.
I know for a fact, that either the b17a or b16a motors will easily handle 8k. the metallurgy on these engines is practically the same, the rings, bearings are also the same part numbers… no reason you cannot run either motor to 9k if you wanted to.
in theory the b16 will rev higher easier, but either motor will take 8k for thousands of miles with ease.
Fact- use which ever block you get cheapest and in best condition.
Off Topic, but i’ve run my b18b bottom end to 8600 for 3 years now. stock rods , b16 pistons,(arp rod bolts, b16 bearings).
…if you are on a limited budget…with time restraints then its not a good idea to get anything done to your car at this time. Don’t rush things along and end up sacrificing BOTH budget & reliability. If you want reliability I suggest a stock B18c which according to wikipedia.com is the equalivant of the U.S TYPE-R as far as HP & torque, but without the mark-up pricing. Its easier to find a B18c GSR that hasn’t been beat on then it is to find a TYPE-R in the same condition. I recently put the B18c in my car and have put about 6,000 miles on the engine. I keep checking the dipstick and the oil level literally has not moved a millimeter and performs awesome in stock form with minor bolt ons. There is nothing wrong with going this route no matter what people say. Yes, you can get a deal having an engine built by a friend like an LS/VTEC or something along those lines, but by the sounds of what you are looking for I would not chance it. Go stock, minor bolt-ons for a worry free future both financially $$$$ and reliability wise. AGAIN DON"T CHEAP OUT!!
knowledge-if u want to call me a dumb ass, thats cool. u proved how much of an idiot u are. this is the problem with people, the only thing that lifts a brow is hp. when, tq is whats going to generate more overall power. .7 c.r is a substantial improvement, but, if u think that is more beneficial than 83cc, ur just lost. and speaking of r/s says it all. this is one of the most irrelevant issuses, especially when comparing a 16. vs. 17. its absolutely idiotic. 16’s or 17’s, 18’s all can rev to 9K. one thinks he knows all yet knows very little. the 2nd gen 170hp runs a different im and cams than its 17 counterpart, different ecu mapping (p30 timing maps are very good) etc. learn b4 u chat. in any case a b20b makes more overall (average) power. something that u need to learn about. average power will net a quicker car. its simple. tq gets u there and hp keeps u there. so, with ur added c.r. and more hp (low c.r. b20b vs. b18a/b) why is the b20 more powerful, moron? anyway, enough with the name calling. anybody with half a brain knows the benefits of average power, vs. peak power. get over it, ur wrong. and if u don’t think so, ask any machinist, racer or engine/car builder what is more effective in terms of power production… a half point higher c.r. or 83cc’s displacement? ask anybody in the sport…on any forum. (h-t, k20.org, clubsi, wherever). i’ll even put a wager on it. sorry no-ledge, ur wrong. misinformation the new drug of choice. displacement owns, and get that r/s crap out of ur head. its a meaningless discussion when comparing a 16. vs. 17. completely idiotic
i challenge anybody to come on here and defend that .7 c.r. is more beneficial then an additional 83cc? please, somebody? cuz if i were wrong, nobody would upgrade there b16’s to, lsv’s or 18c’s or b20v’s. they’d just mill the head to reduce the cc and obtain .7 c.r. and net more power than a larger motor, according to No-ledge…wow, i can’t even believe i’m still on this. whomever thinks different is completely mislead, which is what i’m trying to prevent…anyone??? hello? :loser:
They are almost the same, but the B16A has a better rod/stroke ratio.
Better R/S ratio = Better suited for high RPM operation.
Off-Topic but does anyone know the R/S Ratio of the H22A please???
BTW, Very informative thread 
Listen, man. The only reason I called you a dumbass is because you tried to insult me and claim I’m trying to spread misinformation when I never even claimed that the B16A block was the better choice (I merely said it was my preference). If you didn’t see the misinformation in PACT man’s post, you weren’t looking.
The only reason I’m talking about peak hp is because the title of the thread is: “Which combo will generate more power?” The title of the thread isn’t “Which combo is the more potent engine setup?” It is about power, and I assumed that to mean PEAK HORSEPOWER.
The OP asked about which engine would handle high RPM better, and in theory, an engine with a better r/s ratio will handle that. You’re calling me an idiot for properly answering the man’s question?
Notice the same answer:
And yes, I’m well aware that the camshafts, ECU, and intake manifold are better on the P30 B16A than the P61 B17A1. However, the OP is talkung about using a Type R PR3 head, and P73 camshafts. This would make for an even playing field, and I’m sure the larger lift/diameter camshafts would take well to the 10.4 compression ratio of the B16A block. You seem to keep ignoring the premise of the OP’s thread…
Did you not notice when I asked you:
I’m well aware of average/overall power, but again, that didn’t seem to be the topic of the thread. Again, you ignore both what I say, and the questions the OP is asking.
Again, do you read? Someone did just that.
I just wasted time typing this crap, but I can’t believe you stated all this crap for jumping on me for insulting me based on my opinion about which block I would rather mate to a Type R head.
i’m not jumping on u for no reason. at then end of the day, r/s means very little when comparing the 17 vs. 16. the improved r/s might allow the 16 to handle stress better from 9-9500rpm. but, when the reciprocating mass is balanced, lighter components are used and both the shortblock and head are strengthened, rpm ceiling is a non-issue. and even when both shortblocks remain untouched, its pretty much the same situation. average power is everything, with peak power being meaningless. so, my point is…the bigger motor will net more average power. which in turn is a motor that generates more power. plain and simple. i read everything that u replied with, and its misleading, especially with the c.r. and r/s issue. lastly, a motor with less c.r. can handle more agressive timing maps. with the limitaion of fuel quality in different areas (91 vs 94 octane) a motor with higher compression isn’t more desirable for dd, unless a higher fuel source is available. (i.e. race fuel). i made 194whp 136wtq with an modded 18c1, with 10.3/1 c.r. why did the motor make such good power for such a low c.r. when compared to what the industry standard, of late, seems to be? simple and good set up and excellent tune with an agressive timing map. c.r. is way overrated whereas displacement is underrated…but usually these feelings often plague only the Honda community
I agree with that 100%, but the point of this thread was that the OP wanted to use a bone stock block, and he asked which one would take revs better. We both know that all of the B-series VTEC blocks are good to 9,000 RPM, but in theory, the one with the best rod stroke ratio will handle high RPM operation. That is the ONLY reason R/S ratio was mentioned other than the fact that PACT man tried to imply that the B17A1 had a better R/S ratio than the B16A, which is untrue.
I understand this, but again, the OP seems to be asking which combo will generate the most power, not the most average power.
I really don’t think one would have to worry about fuel higher than 91 octane on en engine with 10.4:1 ratio. This ratio is perfectly fine for aggressive fuel maps, as well as a DD. The OP won’t be using an ECU any more aggressive than a JDM P30, so we should both know that this isn’t an issue.
The OP wants to use a bone stock block, and he asked which one would take revs better. We both know that all of the B-series VTEC blocks are good to 9,000 RPM, but in theory, the one with the best rod stroke ratio will handle high RPM operation. That is the ONLY reason R/S ratio was mentioned other than the fact that PACT man tried to imply that the B17A1 had a better R/S ratio than the B16A, which is untrue.
That is good power for that engine setup, but it is a modified engine. The OP will not be using a modified engine. Also, 10.3:1 compression is right around the compression ratio of the B16A. How much power do you think your engine would have made if it were to have 9.7:1 compression like the B17A1 and the timing maps of a stock ECU?
I don’t think displacement is at all underrated in the Honda community. It seems like nobody even wants to use the 1.6 and 1.7 liter engine setups at all. Personally, I am a fan of short stroke and high compression, but that’s just me, and my views are definitely the minority in the Honda community.
i still think the best bet would be a b17 block. a b17 shortblock with p72 head and thinner head gasket will be over 10:1 c/r, add some nice stage 2-3 cams and an aftermarket intake manifold.