First off, let me say that this forum is the absolute best!! Everybody on here is very knowledgeable & very helpful
Now, I am not a newb but I do have a few questions. I have been saving and accuiring parts for my 1st engine build and I want to do it RIGHT and not have it break on me in the near future!
I’m kind of torn between building an LS Vtec vs a full GSR build. I already have a complete GSR p72 cylinder head that is fresh from the machine shop with a resurface. Complete with full valvetrain & gsr camshafts w/ AEM Tru-Time cam gears. I also have both a complete b18a1 bottom end and a b18c1 bottom end. I have already purchased RS Machine pr3 82mm pistons and will be using them in either block.
Which one would provide more power? Better bang for your buck?
My goals are of course making the most reliable power, being cost effective, and daily driven.
My teg already has a b16 j1 cable transmission, 3" short ram intake w/ custom ice box, old school JG Edelbrock Pro Flo Header 4-2-1, 2.25" test pipe, custom 2.5" exhaust w/ 2.5" Magnaflow muffler. If I get somewhat a lot of feedback, I will most likely turn this thread into my build thread!!
Definitley imo use the gsr block because it is made for the high revs you want to compliment vtec & gsr block has oil squirters & main girdle which will make the motor more stronger and more reliable to be beat on
LS-VTEC will put down more torque at the wheels… this is the main reason people build them. better power thoughout all RPM
GSR block just combines the best of all worlds at the cost of low end torque.
That said an LS-V type motor is a specialized build and will require some modification and add ons. not a project to be taken lightly, but comes with a HUGE upside performance wise if you ask me…
Since you’re set on using those pistons you should check the compression ratio they will yield with each block, that right there may be enough of a decision maker for you. You should be more concerned with achieving the compression ratio you want rather than worrying about the small displacement difference between the blocks. Another thing to consider is that it depending on how you build the motor the LS block may be more expensive to rebuild than the GSR block.
Generally you are tackling this whole thing the wrong way - buying parts before having a plan. You should have decided what you wanted to build before buying pistons and a rebuilt head.
[QUOTE=Colin;2289165]Since you’re set on using those pistons you should check the compression ratio they will yield with each block, that right there may be enough of a decision maker for you. You should be more concerned with achieving the compression ratio you want rather than worrying about the small displacement difference between the blocks. Another thing to consider is that it depending on how you build the motor the LS block may be more expensive to rebuild than the GSR block.
Generally you are tackling this whole thing the wrong way - buying parts before having a plan. You should have decided what you wanted to build before buying pistons and a rebuilt head.[/QUOTE]
I couldn’t agree more. When starting out it’s easy to be guilty of this approach…months or even years later you find you sold what you “started” with and have a whole different path at that point…and of course kicking yourself because machine work is expensive. You only want to do it once if possible. If the parts you were discussing were very similar it wouldn’t matter, but they are in fact very very different. You have to make a strong commitment one way or another and I would develop a full plan first.
I think the LS/Vtec would be sick setup, but since it’s your first build you might want to simply stick to the GSR. Do your research and make sure your piston to valve clearance and CR is safe so you never have doubts. Be OCD about everything and take your time when torquing, measuring and reading your Honda directions. You wouldn’t be the first person to build an LS/vtec but it’s not as straight forward. You said:
“Which one would provide more power? Better bang for your buck?
My goals are of course making the most reliable power, being cost effective, and daily driven.”
They both provide bang for your buck. If your goals are reliable power, cost effective and daily driven I would stick to the GSR for sure.
Thanks for all the feedback guys. That’s why this is my favorite forum!
My original plan was to build a ls vtec. The b18a1 was the old bottom end that wsas in my car. Most everybody hones the cylinders to 81.5mm to get rid of all the little nicks and stuff so I said, “what the hell, I’ll go 82mm to try and sqeeuze as much torque outta my build as I can.”
I picked up the GSR head for $250 complete and had my local machine shop perform a pressure test, leakdown test, hot tank it, replace the valve stem seals, and resurface the deck.
Later on down the road, my brother swapped in a b20 bottom end into his 95 Civic. To make it a b20v and said I could have his B18C1 bottom end.
I think I’m going to build the LS Vtec except I’m going to use the B18C1 block and throw in my LS crank & rods with the pr3 pistons. That way, I will have the benefits of the GSR with the block girdle, oil pump, water pump, and I don’t have to get a Vtec conversion kit since everything lines up and I don’t have to run a vtec oil line. And I still get the torque from the LS’s 89mm stroke.
Sounds like a solid plan?
As a guideline, I used Zeal Autoworks compression calculator. With the b18a1, my C/R would be 12.5.1 which is too high for my taste and the b18c1 with ls crank & rods would be 11.7.1 Much better for daily driving IMO. Does this sound correct?
your going to be at a pretty high 11 or 12 with the pr3 pistons and gsr head.
aw for cams a ctr cam or skunk2 tuner series stg 1 or 2 would be perfect. and all this can be ran with 91 octane fuel.
you need to run specific comp on pistons to run big cams.
you kinda started backwards by getting pistons first, find out what comp your going the have and get into the cams. happy hunting for cams
Yeah, I have been taking a more in depth look at camshafts lately but I think I’m just gonna stick with the GSR bumpsticks. I find it very difficult to find an ideal pair of camshafts. All the cams out there have a super high rpm powerband that suit my needs. I’m only looking to rev at max 8000rpm since the R/S ratio is piss poor at 1.54. My ideal camshaft would be one with the same duration specs as oem GSR, but with significantly higher lift. The closest thing I could find would be Crane Cams #253-0010.
Sticking w/ GSR cams is a waste, you want CTR/ITR at a bare minimum. GSR cams were not made for higher compression, CTR/ITR were and are going to be much better suited to your engine if you’re 11:1 or over. The fact that you aren’t reving above 8k isn’t all that important. So what, you’ll miss out on 500-1000rpm worth of power, but a good set of cams are going to make more power than the GSR cams for the entire powerband.
I’m running 11:1 in my b17a with a CTR intake cam and P61 exhaust cam and generally only rev to about 8k while tracking the car. The engine makes great smooth power and is more than I currently need for track duty.
Cams are an extremely important piece of an all motor car, don’t overlook this item as they can make or break your build. You said that you already have the cam gears and built head, so it would definitely be waste not to upgrade the cams. Based on what you are describing look for used some ctr/itr cams.
I would upgrade the valvetrain as well. The gsr intake valve springs can be moved to the exhaust side as they are the same part # as the type-r exhaust valve springs. Then you just need the intake valve springs.
at the lest look into the spoon cams specs and get something near that.
I feel you the type of person that likes to take his time with things and try them out before you move on.
if that’s the case then go with the.ctr cams and maybe later on when you feel your ready to bump up cams then look into sk2 tuner cams.
honestly if you decide to go lsv why not B20v you would of reach your goal easy.
Hey everyone I haven’t done a build thread on here and I probably should. Well any ways thought I would add to this post. I have been working on a LS Vtec NA over the years and the motor is finally done and tuned. I did a 82mm bore on my b18a block and I did a b16a head. I have wiseco pistons and my compression is 12:1. my head is pretty much stock other than I have skunk pro 2 cams, gears, retainers. My tunner ( He is a professional when it comes to honda’s and is well known on the honda forums) told me that my cams were just a little too big for my build. I should have either went higher compression or smaller cam. Any ways that being said I love my build and like I said earlier my head is pretty much stock. I don’t have a port and polish and well I put down 214 on a mustang dyno. My tunner said I could have went 13:1 on pump gas with those cams. Any ways the is plenty fast for me and I’m happy with the dyno numbers. I also did a edelbrock victor X intake manifold on it too and of course some headers. This was my first build and it came out pretty good I thought. Who knows what kinda of dyno numbers I would have put down if I did a P N P on the head. Any ways hope this helps you out. Also my car gained 12 hp from 8k 9k rpm and my rev limiter is at 9500 just in case I need that extra 500 rpm on the track. I have no clue what the car will do in the quarter mile. I have all my seats and power stearing, as well as my AC still hooked up in the car as it’s my daily driver. Hope this helps you on your build.
thank you for helping me point out that you cant go with a super big cam if your dont plan to run high comp pistons. and if you run more than 12:1 comp you might need an alternate fuel like e85.
I chose lsv over b20v becuz the cylinder walls are very thin on the b20 and my brother already has one, so I did not want to copy him. He did put down some good numbers, 188whp and 129ft lbs torque on bone stock with ARP rod bolts. But it only lasted about 2 months nd then spun a rod or main bearing. Can’t remember which one at the moment. Plus, I didn’t have to pay for my ls block since I already had one.
Okay, so I have narrowed it down to Crane stage 1 #253-0010 cams, or Rocket Motorsports M21 cams. Which one would I benefit more from for my build? The Crane cams are new and the RM cams are used. I can get the RM’s for $250. Let me know guys, I need to decide before he sells them. Thanks
