92 GS, Blew my B16A, Probably putting in B20B need advice tips etc. please

ASSISTANCE Hybrids & Advanced Aftermarket Engine Performance
1

Subject says most of it I have a 92 GS with a B16A and I blew the B16A last night. Also my transmission is a JDM S1 tranny and it was already on its way out anyways, the third gear sychros are royally fucked and also sometimes it will fall out of third etc. So anyways originally I was just going to get a full B16A swap with engine and tranny included and just swap it in but two of my friends are suggesting doing a B20B with a new B16 tranny because its about 600 bucks cheaper and it would be faster in the city then the B16 with B16 tranny they said.

So I’m pretty much decided on going that route, I can get a JDM B20B for $390 CDN with a 3 month warranty and I can also get a B16 tranny from the same place with a 3 month warranty for $650. So total $1040.

From the same place I can get a full 2nd gen B16A swap for $1500 CDN.

The place I’m getting these parts from is the most respected place in my area and everything comes with 3 month warranty so its my best option as far as where to buy from…

I’m interested in hearing what you guys have to say and also if I decide to go the B16A route I know it would be a straight swap with what I have there right now which is easy as pie. If I do the B20B route I need to know of anything I have to watch out for, little tips and tricks from the guys that have done it before basically. Like I can use the engine mounts I have on the car right now correct? My buddy said use a PR4 ECU for the B20B with B16 tranny route that sound correct?

Also I thought about doing a B20B-VTEC build because the head on my B16A is still fine. So if I were to do a light B20B-VTEC build what would be required for that?

Basically I have $1800-2000 CDN to spend on this, and I would definitely like to do the B20B-VTEC build before I put it in but if its going to cost too much then it will have to wait.

EDIT: The B20B I’m planning on using is this one.
http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=66

2

What exactly do you mean by light?
there is no light way to build a B20-VTEC.

since the bore is 84mm you have to get forged pistons. RS Machine used to make a cast ITR Replica in 84mm that was reasonably priced but not anymore. forged pistons cost $400+.

since your getting aftermarket pistons you would have to machine the OEM rods to fit the pistons, and OEM B20 rods are like LS rods, there weak and dont like alot of stress so after machining them to fit the pistons, shot peening them for added strength, and fitting ARP hardware you mine as well just go with aftermarket rods. cheapest are eagles, $300.

now your in it $700 and you havent even honed your block, bought your new rod bearings, head gasket, oil pan gasket, water pump, timing belt, head bolts, VTEC Conversion kit, all of the misc. gaskets on the cylinder head, cams (Cant run stock, you wont make any power).

And the one expense EVERYONE forgets to include. Tuning. yup your brand new motor needs a good tuning program and dyno time. $600 average for some Hondata and 2 hrs of pullin.

So all in all your looking $2000+ to do it right. and you really dont want to build a B20-VTEC the wrong way because it will go down the same road your B16 did. and remmember something also, Honda built that B16, your building this one.

So in the end my advice to you, buy the B20 and call it a day. put some bolt ons on it, intake, header, cams, and get it tuned. and then maybe if you feel like it and the engine is healthy throw some spray on it. youll have just as much power as a Type-R and more torque.

Oh and one last thing, B16’s are for kids :stuck_out_tongue:

3

you will alsno need to get a b18a/b intake manifold to replace the b20’s.

4

yeah thats what i figured so i’ll have to wait on building the b20-vtec thats okay though. thanks for the breakdown of the process, greatly appreciated. i can get my hands on a b18a/b intake manifold pretty easily but can i not use my b16 manifold? just curious. and from what i understand i have to use the p/s bracket from my b16 and some other stuff?

5

hmmm anyone know where i could get my hands on a b20z? would that be a better option than the b20b, its got some more horsepower and same torque and higher redline. seems like a good idea to do a b20z with a b16 tranny maybe.

EDIT: also i’m confused on hmotorsonline.com they show a b20b with 146hp and 133tq whats the deal with that?

i’m still bouncing back and forth between doing the B20B-B16Atranny or straight new B16A full swap. because

B20B-B16A tranny
126 HP
133 TQ
6300 Redline
$1040 CDN

B16A full swap
170 HP
116 TQ
8200 Redline
$1500 CDN

and my car has the B16A in it already so it would literally be just unplug and unbolt then bring in the new and bolt it in. i feel wrong going from 170/116/8200 down to 126/133/6300 non-vtec i feel like i won’t be able to stand it if i do the b20b route.

6

a b20/16 will absolutely destroy the 16/16 combo.

this is ls vs. b16…imagine b20

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1348328

7

the difference between b and z is very minimal. people that have never tried it (b20b/z, b20v) will tell u different, but, the power is obtained thru displacement, not c.r. trust me on that. u want a higher redline? us an ls ecu.

8

b20 > b16

peak hp is just bragging rights.

even on a “light” b20/vtec build it would be wise to do Tri-metal rod and main bearings, ARP rod bolts, main studs and head studs.

if you buy a b20b, i hear there’s ones with low compression and ones with higher compression. not too sure about this tho. anyways when you’re at tiger make sure you know what the compression specs are. some importers have them written right on the engine grab the one with the highest numbers.

9

so everyone seems to be gunning for the B20B-B16 tranny idea, probably the reason i’m still a little ify on it is because I’ve never driven a setup like that so I don’t know just looking at the numbers seems weird. but I’ll trust you guys for sure so I’ll do the B20B-B16 tranny combo. Any more tips on stuff I should do to the engine while i have it out of the car? also I’m gonna flush out the engine and tranny once they’re in… well maybe the tranny before its in and the engine once its in.

also more on when i’m picking which engine i want. I’ll look around for the best one, but going with a higher compression one is a better idea eh? is there any other way i can tell which one is higher compression, like if they don’t have it written on them?

10

Okay guys I’m having some serious problems here, it’s Wednesday night now and I need to get this swap completed by Friday night next week and I still have a tonne of unanswered questions that are making me doubt the B20B swap to the point I’m tempted to just do the B16A swap.

My car is a 92 GS, with 1st gen B16A OBD-1

I’ve done a rediculous amount of reading and searching on this site and I can’t find a single solid B20B swap guide, all of them have broken links and such and most of the information is for going from B18 to B20B not B16A to B20B.

I need to get a solid list of exactly what I need if I’m going to do this B20B-B16 tranny swap.

  1. Can I use my B16A intake manifold? if I can would it be better to use a B18 one? Because I can get one if its better.

  2. What ECU should I use?

  3. I have to swap over the engine mounts from my B16A?

  4. Am I an idiot if i don’t do the timing belt and water pump on the B20B before putting it in? I’m buying it with approximately 55 000 KM on it, is it really that nessasary?

  5. Whats all this I’m reading about swapping the thermostat housing from the B18? Can I use the housing from my B16 or no?

  6. I have to swap the power steering bracket and the alternator from my B16 over correct?

  7. I see them saying to swap over the exhaust manifold from the B18, can I use the one from my B16?

  8. I have to swap over my distributor? My distributor is actually a B18 distributor with just one of the legs cut to fit the B16.

  9. I see people saying to swap over the B18 fuel injectors, can I use my B16 injectors or what? Is this nessasary to swap them over?

  10. Power steering pump i have to swap that over or what?

  11. And whats this about swapping over the B18 crank pulley? Can I use my B16 crank pulley?

  12. And whats all the fuzz about this thermosister switch or whatever?

I would be using the clutch thats on the car right now but i want to get new bearings for it because the ones in there are fucked so is there a good kit to buy or do i just order some from like Carquest?

Also I guess I need new intake manifold and exhaust manifold gaskets? What vehicle do I tell the parts guys to order them for when I go in to order them tho?

Also what other miscellanious things do I need?

11

  1. no it won’t fit. i got one if you want it. it’s just taking up space.

  2. get an obd-1 one chipped and tuned once you get the motor in. a regluar LS one will do you fine for now

  3. yes.

  4. yes you would be. it may only have 55,000km on it but they don’t say how longs it’s been sitting.

  5. yes you should be ok

  6. yup

  7. yes you can

  8. yes it’ll work just fine

  9. yes you have to for it to work. the b20 would most likely be OBD2

  10. yes.

  11. yes. so it’ll work with the PS pump

  12. i dunno

ones from carquest are fine but you’re best bet is to get a whole new clutch kit.

get the gaskets for LS/b20

12

okay thank you SO MUCH that is greatly appreciated, I feel much more confident doing the swap now. Thanks but I got a local buddy I’m getting a new intake manifold gasket and a B18 manifold off of for 10 bucks lol.

I have a JDM P08 OBD-1 ECU thats currently chipped to run the B16A so I’ll get a chip for it to run the B20B, I can get one off a guy locally for about 20 bucks.

I probably will do the timing belt and water pump then I’m gonna get quotes on the prices now.

The thermosister switch thing I’ll do more research on then.

I know my best bet is to get a whole new clutch kit but I can’t do that the $ won’t allow me besides I know the clutch on my car now grabs really strong its just the release bearing and the flywheel bearing that are messed up. So I should be able to order just those bearings from Carquest and use the clutch plate I have now.

So for engine parts I look up 97 Honda CRV 2.0 L

for transmission stuff I look up 95 Honda Del Sol 1.6 L VTEC

and for car parts I look up 92 Acura Integra 1.8 L

Lmao the Carquest guys love me, I always make their day interesting.

So looks like my purchase list is this so far:
B20B
B16 tranny
New release bearing for B16 tranny
New flywheel bearing (hmm would I look that up for the 95 Del Sol or the CRV actually?
B18 intake manifold
B18 intake manifold gasket
New chip for my ECU to run the B20B
Timing belt and water pump for B20B
Bunch of oil
Bunch of synchromesh for the tranny
Engine flush
Radiator coolant

Anything else you guys can think of?

And I’m going to pick up the engine and tranny either today or tomorrow so if you guys have any tips as to how to tell which would be the best B16 tranny to get or the best B20B to get please tell me ASAP. For instance how to tell if its the higher compression B20B or whatever. I’m for sure getting the one with the long intake manifold because its only $390 the one with the short manifold is $450.

Thank you SO MUCH for all the help once again, I plan on taking a lot of pictures and making a write up for this kind of swap so it can be archived and such so that we won’t have any more threads like these.

13

you’ll be pretty happy with the b20/b16 trans combo. i’m running a B20z with skunk 2 intake manifold,4-2-1 header, aem cai, 13lb flywheel and stage 1 clutch with S1 tranny. and its a blast. Torque+short gears=:rockon: The only thing is your top speed will be very low! Even thou you shouldn’t go that fast, it’ll be about 114mph that will be rev limiter in 5th. There is also the option to run Crower 403’s and dual valve springs+ti retainers (which is what i’m getting for mine this spring) Then some tuning of choice , I’m going to run a safc2 until i convert to Obd 1. then you could go to about 7300-7500 and still make power. The 403’s bump up your power pretty substantially for how much they cost.

14

B20z and the LS tranny are perfect for a DA/DB, with te B16 tranny freeway use becomes a poor decision. Isn’t there 350hp turbo LS on Pgmfi with stock bottom end ?

15

buff4prez is wrong on 2 of your questions.

The P.S. bracket is different on VTEC engines, use the one from your LS.

and you need to use the bracket for the motor mount that bolts to the timing belt side of the engine from your LS. VTEC engines use a different one.

Also you need to watch it with the injectors and distributor. you say your running a 1st gen B16 but you have a 92-93 integra. now are you running an OBD-0 computer or are you running it OBD-1?

if its 0 then your injectors are different and you probably have a resistor box (little gray box with fins that is on the firewall, drivers side) And of course your distributor will depend on OBD too. do you have gray or white distributor plugs?

16

What makes me say its 1st gen is because the DOHC on the valve cover is bigger than the VTEC so unless the valve cover was swapped then that means its 1st gen correct?

Currently its running a JDM P08 ECU thats been chipped to run the B16A the plugs on it are OBD-1 sizes. The plugs for my distributor are gray. Also I check engine codes by using the check engine light flashing sequence not by an LED on the ECU.

Also one more question are there any special tools I’m going to need to do this swap?

I have a full 241 piece socket kit, obvious tools like pliers and screwdrivers, electric impact gun, propane torch if needed.

So far I think the only thing I have to rent is a axle nut set because I don’t have a socket big enough for those.

The process is this, pull my B16A with the S1 tranny attached. Seperate them from each other, take my clutch disc because I’ll be re-using it. And then assemble the B20B with the new B16 tranny using my clutch. I have already ordered a new release bearing and pilot bearing. I’ve also already orderd a new water pump and timing belt for the B20B.

I’m trying to make sure I have all the correct parts and tools I need for it to go as smoothly as possible. My friend and I are doing the entire thing in my home garage with a jack, stands, and a borrowed engine hoist.

If theres any other tools I’m going to need to rent please inform me if you know.

And here’s some random questions:

Anyone know the valve adjustment specs for the B20B?

Anyone know the fuel pressure PSI for the B20B? (i have an adjustable AEM fuel pressure regulator i plan on swapping over)

What octane gas should I be running in the B20B? I was running 94 in my B16A. I have the options of 87, 89, 91, 94 in my area…

17

use the stock regulator. using an adjustable on a stock motor will do nothing for you

valve adjustments…i would assume they would be the same as an LS but research it to be sure.

for fuel, i don’t see it needing anymore than 87. it’s stock.

18

as for tools:

Theres a special tool you need to hold the crank pulley in place while you torque the bolt, it’s like 80 bucks at most places or you could fab one up at the hardware store for 20 like i did.

Separating the ball joints from the LCA’s could be a bitch so you may need to rent/buy a pitman tool.

Honda makes a special tool for removing the bitch pin form the shift linkage but a 8mm pin punch and alot of hammering will take it out. There are many methods to this, the one i thought sounded good but haven’t tried is to freeze the pin so the metal contracts and becomes easy to pop out.

Feeler gauges for the valve adjustment if you plan on doing that

torque wrench of course

maybe a few other random things that I cant think of right now.

As for searching, 2 min. got me to this B20 SWAP GUIDE

19

k thanks, yeah i read through that b20 swap guide but it really doesn’t help very much.

I got the new engine and tranny at my house now. I ended up getting a

short manifold JDM B20B for $420 after all with 3 month warranty.

so since its the short manifold version can’t I just use the manifold thats on it? what about the throttle body thats on it? or do i still have to switch to b18 manifold and throttle body…?

20

[QUOTE=daver;330762]

If using the low rise b20 mani:
-B20 throttle body (using b18 will eliminate the FIV)
-Extend map sensor connector from firewall to plug into b20 MAP on the throttle body
-Extra vacuum tubes for a cleaner install (but not needed)
-Throttle wire bracket at the “tension adjustment” location from the b18 is needed and should be modified or attach with one bolt only
-Recommend the b18a fuel rail to use the correctly sized plastic harness support bracket guide thing
-B18 fuel pressure regulator 'cause the outlet nip on the b20 one is smaller (and get a B&M unit)[/QUOTE]

Came straight out of the swap b20 swap guide