The starting system for my GSR has been acting funny every once in a while, for the last 5-6 years. Like when it’s cold and has been parked outside (has to be both of these situations) sometimes the car wouldn’t start. Turn the key, dash lights come on, but that’s it. No cranking sound (or other sounds for that matter). Usually the car could be convinced to start after smacking the starter a few times with a hammer or tire iron. And if that wouldn’t work roll starting the car always did.
So when, out picking up a pizza two weekends ago, when the car refused to start (to drive home) I didn’t think much of it. I just roll started her (lucky for me there was a slight hill in the parking lot) and drove home. But the following morning (car parked in garage) car wouldn’t start. And hitting the starter had no effect. I thought, no big deal - the starter probably died. Afterall, it was 12-13 years old at this point (2nd starter for the car).
This past weekend I replaced the starter. Much bigger pain in the ass than what the Hanes manual says, btw. (jerks! lol). After triumphantly putting everything back together I hop behind the wheel, twist the key and…nothing. Exactly the same as before I replaced the starter. Nothing! (yes battery is fully charged).
So the car works fine when you bypass the starter system. And I’ve replaced the starter. So what does that leave to be checked/replaced? I’m gonna inspect the car this evening with a multimeter, but is there anything super obvious that a more experienced Integra owner/mechanic could point out for me?
It could be the ignition switch. Sounds like you’re on the right track with the multi-meter though. Assuming the new starter is good then it means you’re just not getting power to the starter which means checking the wiring to see what deal is.
When my car was parked up for a week and when attempting to start the car, the starter died. When I replaced my starter, the starter wasn’t engaging, but the solenoid was clicking. I checked around with a multi-meter and everything looked good except there was no power going to the starter. Looked further into it and found the previous owner fused the constant wire (the wire that goes straight to the starter from the battery) to the starter when the battery was relocated to the truck, and that fuse popped twice. Doing some more research found out that a starter can pull up to 200 Amps when trying to start the car, so I had to bypass the fuse because I couldn’t find a fuse that big and since then it starts no issues. And in some other cars if your battery voltage drops to ~9 volts the starter won’t engage (I do not know if this is the case for our cars).
Do what Colin recommended and also check to see if the starter is getting full 12 volts before attempting to start, and have someone try to start and see if the voltage drops. Check all the wiring and fuses for damage/burns/connectivity.
A friend and I spent 3 hours last night trying to figure this out, to no success.:sad:
-Hotwired the starter to confirm that the new one is good; it is.
-Confirmed the clutch pedal switch functions properly
-Confirmed that the ignition switch functions properly
-All fuses look fine (checked these on Sunday)
We seem to have located what the root of the problem is, but we don’t know what is causing the problem or how to (properly, by the book) fix it. The smaller of the two wires that goes to the starter (not the one that goes from the battery to the starter, rather the smaller wire that goes from the ignition switch to the starter) is not supplying 12V. The voltage reading for that wire is 0.3x when the ignition switch is in the off position, 0.4x when in the “starting” position. This wire reads 12V when measured inside the interior of the car, under the dash board. But under the hood of the car by the starter, no 12V.
We’re stumped. Can’t figure out what happened to the wire or what’s causing the issue under the hood. We couldn’t locate the ignition relay under the hood, so that’s annoying. My factory service manual seems to be way off in it’s accuracy for some reason. A lot of the wire colors for items we checked do not match the manual.
At this point we’re considering bypassing this wire altogether and installing a new wire from the starter to the interior ignition switch. Only safety issue with this would be the clutch pedal lockout wouldn’t work.
I appreciate the input I’ve gotten from both of you; any further ideas? :surrend:
Did you check the clutch pedal arm to make sure the rubber plug was still there for the plunger switch? I know it sounds stupid but if the rubber plug is not there the switch does not activate the starter relay.
Yes, check what 2ndJenn mentioned. Depending on how you checked the clutch switch this could definitely be a problem. Obviously the switch can be good but if it’s not being flipped then it doesn’t matter. At least you’ve isolated it to that wire - which by the way is the wire to your starter solenoid. The starter gets constant power from the battery but then needs a signal (when you try to start it) which tells the starter to engage and rotate.
I would suggest ditching that Haynes manual, they’re all but worthless. What you need is a Helms Factory Service Manual.
Also, since you were wondering… I’ve never messed with one, but according to the Helms the starter relay should be in the center console area. Looks to be on the passenger side of where the radio is located. Right near the radiator fan control module.
Okay. So I checked and the clutch pedal plunger rubber end is missing. Does this matter? If the clutch is pressed in while trying to start the car doesn’t this plunger switch get taken out of the equation?
As to the starter relay being mounted in the center console behind the stereo…I’m not sure I can find it. Anyone have a photo of one? Here are a few photos I took a few minutes ago showing the items behind the stereo, as well as the wiring trunk that passes through the fire wall; the trunk through which I believe the starter wire is within.
Finally, if it’s necessary to take a closer look at the ignition switch in the steering column, how the heck does one remove the steering column cover? The service manual says 3 screws hold it together. Yeah, so I removed those and the damn thing still doesn’t want to separate. What’s the trick/proper procedure?
I haven’t dealt with the clutch switch before but I had a problem with my brake light switch and I assume they’re similar. The small rubber/plastic plug is what makes contact with the switch’s plunger mechanism. If the plug is missing then the switch is allowed to pass through the hole which the plug snaps into. Since the plunger on the switch passes through the hole it doesn’t become depressed, and without being depressed the switch isn’t flipped. So that plug is required for the system to function. As I mentioned I haven’t looked at the clutch switch specifically in a long long time so I forget if it’s the same as the brake switch. When the plug for my brake light switch popped out and went missing my lights got stuck on and my battery died. In a pinch I used some duct tape to cover the hole where the plug goes and this was enough to solve my problem for the day while I was out at the track. You should be able to do something similar to test if this is your problem.
You may need to remove the stereo and/or center console trim to access the relay. The item you pictured is not what you’re looking for. It should be behind or to the right of the stereo. The diagram in the Helms is not too detailed about this. A quick google search returned a g2ic post with some pics. Unfortunately the pics show the relay after it was unbolted so it’s unclear exactly where it was mounted. But this should be enough to help you find what you’re looking for. http://forums.g2ic.com/showthread.php?193469-DA-Starter-Relay-with-Pics
The steering column cover snaps together and is held in place by a retaining ring. I think you need to remove the steering wheel (not 100% sure about this) to remove the retaining ring, then once the ring is off you can unclip the two halves of the cover. I just checked the Helms and it does show removal of the wheel and cover in order to replace the switch.
It shouldn’t be a pain to get to the relay. Maybe I’m just familiar with all of that stuff but I could take all of that apart, test the relay, replace if needed, and reinstall everything in probably half the time it’d take me to wire up something custom. It’s really not that daunting of a task. Looks like you’d need to remove the knee bolster panels, center console, and perhaps drop loosen the stereo assembly enough to move it out of the way or maybe remove entirely. Probably 5-15min worth of work to remove all of that stuff.
There are 2 switches on the clutch pedal one top that activates when the clutch petal is fully depressed (top one) and the other that de activates when the clutch is depressed (bottom switch). If the rubber plug is missing the switch will not activate. Before you start tearing the car apart make sure the rubber plugs are there. They are there from the factory for a reason.
In a pinch I have seen people superglue dimes over the holes or used trim plugs so the switches work. The parts are only a few dollars.
Meh, i couldn’t figure out a good way to pass a wire through the firewall. I’m sick of wrenching on this…driving it over to my shop later this evening. Let them sort it out. :surrend: I need this car back on the road ASAP for winter weather. Not about to drive my Cayman on snow or salt covered roads.
