IM REBUILDING MY ENGINE TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO.
I SAW A 2000 CIVIC SI HEAD… VTEC DOHC etc with 9k on it
my dad is paying for it . but i want to know if i get that head onto my block do i need the correct exhaust manifold or can i use the integra one that i have now? would it be better to just get a gsr head or something? opinions are good reply please O yea and no matter what i hea di get im getting type r pistons
putting any vtec head on your car is gonna be almost exactly the same process. The only things that will be different will be what intake manifold you can use.
the Si head is a better idea than the gsr head for the reason that the gsr intake manifold has dual butterflies, which means you need a gsr ecu or should get the skunk2 manifold—the gsr intake manifold isn’t all that good.
your stock header will bolt up fine, so will any aftermarket header for your car. All the b series exhaust ports are in the same place and same bolt pattern.
but please don’t do a half ass vtec swap. Realize that in order to do the swap you’re gonna need to pay about $2000 on top of what the head/intake manifold is gonna run you.
Holy fvck. $2000 not including parts?
There is nothing special about building a simple, basic, ls/vtec that would cost so much.
Sure, if you want to wind out your vtec headed B18A to 9.5k every shift, yeah… major work and $$ involved.
But a lot of power can be made while retaining a sane rev limit if one is on a budget.
The work should cost no more than a conventional head swap that includes head resurfacing… factor in a LITTLE machine shop time for the cylinder head, and some rewiring and youre done.
-Thomas
it’s never a good idea to build a half ass ls/vtec, it takes some money to build it for daily driving…
if you throw the vtec on the non vtec block you will actually lose power, you need to bump the cr up
you will also need to tap the head and plug up one of the oil return holes on the corner of the head…
there is more to building ls/vtec’s, i suggest you do some searching on the net…
yeah, brekekex, i’m gonna have to disagree with you here. True, you could just throw a vtec head on and rev like a vtec engine (rev to 8000-8500rpms) but its not gonna last all that long. Personally i wouldn’t be willing to have an engine that is jno longer gonna have honda’s world famous reliability.
opinions differ a lot on this subject, but all the engine smart people i’ve talked to have pretty much backed up the idea that if you want your ls/vtec to rev to 8000-8500 rpms and last, then you need to build the bottom end.
you must note that there are reasons why the b18c blocks are different than the b18a/b ones.
-better rod/stroke ratio, oil squirters for cooling, and such things are there so that the engine is gonna be reliable still eventhough it has a higher redline.
If honda could have saved money by just putting higher compression pistons in the b18a and used that instead of designing a brand new block then they would have. so, there must be a good reason why they spent all the time and money on making a new block for higher revs.
Don’t forget that the newer the Vtec head you use, the more wiring and pin swapping that has to be done. Everybody here seems to be ignoring the issue of wiring, and I’m wondering why.
i don’t see how wiring is much of an issue at all. wiring an ls/vtec is gonna be just like wiring up any other vtec swap. Dan’s swap guide outlines this pretty well.
if you’re non obd, then use a non obd dist, injectors and ecu. Then you will have to add 3 or 4 wires for the vtec solenoid and such.
if you’re obd1 then you’ll have to run an obd1 dist, injectors, and ecu. And again, run 3 or 4 wires for vtec.
If you end up with a gsr head then depending on your situation you may want to use the skunk2 intake manifold. But this all depends on your car and what ecu you plan on running.
"yeah, brekekex, i’m gonna have to disagree with you here. True, you could just throw a vtec head on and rev like a vtec engine (rev to 8000-8500rpms) but its not gonna last all that long. "
I never said in my post that this engine should be revved up like a vtec motor would be. Even keeping the stock redline of the B18. it would still make more power.
In my post I meantioned a “basic, simple” lsvtec… I agree that if you take an essentially stock B18A/B bottom end, and start winding it out to B16A like levels, it will grenade sooner than later.
"Don’t forget that the newer the Vtec head you use, the more wiring and pin swapping that has to be done. "
Err… really? How so? I doubt you know the difference between a 2000 year B16 head, and a 1989 B16 head. Throttle bodies can be swapped as can distributors… vtec related sensors did not change over the years.
"if you throw the vtec on the non vtec block you will actually lose power, you need to bump the cr up "
Well, good thing that the B16 cylinder head has a smaller volume Combustion Chamber than the B18A/B head huh?
As soona s you use a vtec head, you raise compression… even better if you youse a B18C1 head. And you will not loose horsepower… heh, how do you come up with that?
"you will also need to tap the head and plug up one of the oil return holes on the corner of the head… "
Head is allready tapped, as is the block… NO tapping neede.
Even if you needed to tap, is it an expensive procedure? NO!
And plugging up an oil line in the head, haha… an appropriately sized 0.05$ brass plug gets happered into the gallery, done.
Again, I dont see $2000 for a basic ls/vtec.
-Thomas
i agree with you about the redline issue. the reason i wrote what i wrote is that you never stated any rpms associated with your “basic ls/vtec” Not that i’m assuming anything about you----but i am assuming that others don’t fully understand. I can see how people see that and think that they can just throw a vtec head on and rev it to 8k without problems.
i guess that our ideas of “basic ls/vtec” is different. I used to be planning an ls/vtec for my car but since then have decided to go with a b17a instead.
personally i wouldn’t build an ls/vtec with anything less than the following:
-b16a head/intake manifold/tb…
-jdm itr pistons w/ new rings
-shot peened and shaved rods
-arp rod bolts
-all new bearings
-full hone/deck/balance of the block assembly
-vtec tranny
-vtec oil line kit
-vtec ecu
-plug oil hole in head
-head gasket
-timing belt
-oil pan gasket
and i’d most likely do th following as well:
-clutch
-lightened flywheel
-vtec oil pump (do they really flow more? i hear conflicting info on this)
that setup is easily $2500-$3000 total, and i just don’t see spending anyless. I just don’t understand the idea of trying to build a vtec engine that is only safe to rev to about 7k or so. Vtec gives you gobbs of power above that rpm that i’d need to have access to.
Good point… all of them.
However, not everyone has 2500-3000$ to spend on an engine build up.
If you have a healthy B18A, get an equally healthy B16 head spend some time talking to the local machine shop, do some minor rewiring, and end it at that for the time beeing.
A stock B18A will still remain reliable up to 7500rpm even if you do have to add ARP rtod bolts (they are not a major expense), and it will still make a hell of a lot more power than a stock B18A.
Also, keep in mind that many people will use 1st gen B16 heads for their buildups… these are equipped with the mildest vtec cams (save for a 1st gen auto B16, even milder).
Those cams make decent power on a 1.6L engine up to 7-8krpm… add 200cc of displacement and that powerband will drop somewhat due to increased breathing requirement of the larger motor, and that effect is exaggerated by much higher piston speed (result of a lower r/s ratio).
So, at least with stock B16 cams, there is little need to wind a B18A to 8-8.5k.
-Thomas
brekekex I just built a ls vtec bro… I put the b16a civic si head on it with a b18b bottom end. I went 12 1/2 compression with wisco pistons and a bore job. All that was $$$ bro… I also did rods… It was a little over 2k after tax just for that stuff. My head was fine so I didn’t have to do anything with it. I few yrs ago I bought an ls vtec built on ebay which reminds me never do that… I was told a piston ring got all messed up and I need to do a rebuild. So I tore down the motor and took it to the machine shop… Come to find out the pistons were fine but in a way I’m glad I did it all. Right now I’m having a problem with my sensors bro. I have all but 2 and one of them I have know clue where it goes and the other is the coolant temp sensor and I can’t find the other end that it plugs into. Maybe someone on here can help with with it. Also I went with a Skunk 2 intake Manifold and it works great. I kept my stock trans but rebuilt every gear. I am only reving to 8200… I am going to get it tuned once the car is running again and who knows where my power will be as far as RPM’s Go.
hey everybody!!! building my ls/vtec tomorro!!! b18a+ GSR head right now my total is at $2165 so original estimate of $2k seems about right
450… complete GSR head minus distributor
250…>>>switched to ITRs<<<
75… brand new obd1 distributor…hoooooked up son!
120… converted p06 chipped with gsr maps+ street tuned
120… ARP head bolts/studs
40… for the tow
600 in labor(includes head work, oil line, piston swap, tuning and a couple other things as well) :]
any advice would be much obliged!!!
I just don’t understand the idea of trying to build a vtec engine that is only safe to rev to about 7k or so. Vtec gives you gobbs of power above that rpm that i’d need to have access to.
i read on honda tech that vtec makes most of its power at 5.8k-6.5k
not sure but ive read it several times
Dude ur lucky… I orginally bought my whole ls vtec online then I spent 2 k in machine work… I still will probably have to spend 500 bucks to get it tuned.
[QUOTE=EA_has_a_DA;1936759]i read on honda tech that vtec makes most of its power at 5.8k-6.5k
not sure but ive read it several times[/QUOTE]
thats not on a high comp motor or on a high comp lsv. thats mostly on turbo set ups.
alaso get your rod bolts son!!!
haha dont trip i got them but im putting them on my built ls/v this ls/v is just a daily driver cuz i think one of the lifters in my LS head came loose so i had to get my car running and instead of fixing my LS head i decided to go ls/v…idk i just need a car cuz im driving an 03 lancer right now that hasnt been driven in almost a year and is on its last leg…lol
you guys do realize that this post is SEVEN YEARS old, right? And that most of the members originally participating are no longer members…
Although a lot of the info is still good, it would be wise to double check it and compare to all the new info. A lot has changed in 7yrs…
efffin A man…ima have to eat my words…
guess its gonna end up costing 2165…
:wahmb:
new setup list
450… complete GSR head minus distributor
250…>>>switched to .10 over ITRs<<<
75… brand new obd1 distributor…hoooooked up son!
120… converted p06 chipped with gsr maps+ street tuned
120… ARP head bolts/studs
250…LS block…with…shot peened rods, arp rod bolts, ACL race bearings
70…bore and hone
40…r & r
40… for the tow
750 in labor(includes head work, oil line, piston swap, tuning and a couple other things as well) :]
[SIZE=“4”]lol…hahaha well steve was the one who revived it i didnt check the previous dates… w.e.[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=EA_has_a_DA;1937072]efffin A man…ima have to eat my words…
guess its gonna end up costing 2165…
:wahmb:
new setup list
450… complete GSR head minus distributor
250…>>>switched to .10 over ITRs<<<
75… brand new obd1 distributor…hoooooked up son!
120… converted p06 chipped with gsr maps+ street tuned
120… ARP head bolts/studs
250…LS block…with…shot peened rods, arp rod bolts, ACL race bearings
70…bore and hone
40…r & r
40… for the tow
750 in labor(includes head work, oil line, piston swap, tuning and a couple other things as well) :][/QUOTE]
What about the following parts:
Oil pan gasket
Valve cover gasket
Injector o-rings
Cam seals
Cam end plug
Timing belt
Timing belt tensioner
Water pump
Oil pump
Front and rear main seals
Spark plugs
Spark plug wires
Water neck o-rings
Thermostat
Oil Filter
Oil
Antifreeze
MTF
Oil drain plug crush washer
Transmission drain plug crush washer
Hondabond
Head gasket
Intake manifold gasket
Exhaust manifold gasket
Vtec solenoid gaskets
Vtec solenoid filters
That’s at least a few hundred bucks worth of OEM stuff you’re going to need. And that’s just the basics, if you really wanna do everything right you’ll be taking apart other things and replacing other things as well. Clutch, flywheel, TB gasket, FITV gaskets, IACV gaskets, PCV valve and the tube which I promise you will break. How old are your radiator hoses, did you have a vtec engine before? If not you’re going to need a new upper rad hose. How are your engine mounts? etc…etc… Everytime I’ve built something like this the nickle and dime stuff is really what adds up since you usually don’t think about it.