I was wondering about intercooler. Do i want to setup a small turbo and i dont want to put a intercooler in.Cause the car back in the days with turbo , they dont want intercooler. so…let me know :umno:
it dosnt realy need an IC:roll:
unless you like detonation, I would realy recomend one.
can you run without one? -yes
is it a good idea? - hell no
it is reccomended to help drop intake temps and lower the chance of detenation and power robbing heat
is it required? no
i ran one of my old setups without one for nearly a year and it ran great
one idea if you’d like to avoid an intercooler is to run water injection, helps lessen the chance of detenation and lowers intake temps a bit as well, that is what i used
[QUOTE=Anubis_4_99;1752877]it is reccomended to help drop intake temps and lower the chance of detenation and power robbing heat
is it required? no
i ran one of my old setups without one for nearly a year and it ran great
one idea if you’d like to avoid an intercooler is to run water injection, helps lessen the chance of detenation and lowers intake temps a bit as well, that is what i used[/QUOTE]
yeah…people run water injection without turbo too.
i have a shelby daytona and it along with alot of the other fwd turbo dodges didn’t come with intercoolers. if you keep it low boost on a small turbo, say like 6 psi and use premium gas and don’t beat the shit outta it you’ll be cool, but get an intercooler asap for more reliability and lots more horsepower.
and some people run intercoolers without a turbo, whats your point?
i ran 12psi on my setup with the water injection, and except when it was like 100 or better out i never had any detenation, and when i did it was little
no ic=too broke to be fooling with forced induction anyway. skimping on a good intercooler is like buying the generic birth control and the cheap condoms. even better, its more like buying none at all. some things you dont skip, or skimp on. to hell with how the old cars were doing it, they didnt know what they were doing and turbocharging was new. if you want to emulate someone, emulate the people driving their cars on the street and winning races at the same time. ill give you one guess as to what all their turbo systems have in common, (dirkas: its not the headunit (turbo)). seriously, the sorriest, cheapest, worst performing turbo systems on this board didnt include intercoolers. please dont anyone think im pointing out your car specifically. you hear about all these cars making performance gains with intercoolers. would the converse logic also mean that without one you would be sacrificing much performance/relaibility. damnit man, no ic is quarter assing it, at best. water injection is a band aid. period. its like octane booster. just bc it works doesnt mean its the right way to do things. just do stuff right the first time and laugh at everybody that didnt, bc they are gonna be the ones with all the problems. good luck to you, i hope you take my advice, your teg will thank you for it!
i dont know about you or anyone else, but with my setup i won all but 1 race i ran, and that was because of a busted rear diff. if it works whats wrong with it? there isnt only one way to do something. also the only problem i had with my car was i couldnt keep a rear diff in it, took out 7 in 3 months, but the only thing that had to do with anything was it couldnt handle the power and me being stupid
to be honest most of the time i feel like beating people with a stick who think there is only one way to do something and anyone else that does something diffrent is a dumbass.
by the way, that car was also my daily driver for 8 months before i bought somethin else
and im not takeing any of that personally, just commenting on my personal experience
oh boy where do i start…
you could have been racing anything. you could have been racing slow cars, or what some of us consider slow cars. you could have been racing fast cars with bad drivers… its futile to debate since your success as a racer/street racer has nothing to do with the merit of intercoolerless turbocharger theory, nor does it act as testament to its practicality. i can assure you 200% that your victories had nothing to do with you not running intercooler. in fact, you would have been faster with one! do you think otherwise? can you prove this? have you ever heard of ANYONE, ANYWHERE straight up ditching their air to air intercooler for water injection? how about ditched their intercooler and got faster? no… hmmm… why do you think that is? if you can intercool the car for what you can water inject it for, and you can, (search), and the performance is better (and it is), then why not do it? are you one of these dare to be different types? emo sprung from that and nothing good came from it. if you wanna be different have a fast nonvtec car or do a k-series swap. thats the right way to do it. you can be different with a faggoty pink g2 with a 3 foot tall wing and 6 mufflers. no one has that. wonder why…
well there are many ways to skin a cat, but that great old saying doesnt really apply here, because there is too much information and intelligence in this community think like that when it comes to turbocharging/intercooling. there is however only one proper way to cool compressed air, and thats with an intercooler. whats wrong with it if it works? i can wipe my ass with a piece of sandpaper and get all the shit off. see my point? lol, whats wrong with it if it works?..well works when, today? how about tomorrow? next month? next year? does water injection cool down inlet temps, yes! is it a suitable replacement for an intercooler? absolutely not. it is a band aid. christ man, for the price you spent on 7 rearends, you could have had at least one intercooler. breaking seven rearends is an apparent sign of abuse and underbudget. racing cars takes lots of money. successfully getting down the track as fast as possible takes a well designed COMBINATION. that means EVERYTHING, not just the engine. if you are one of the types who thinks that you are going to go to the track and smoke all the rich guys in their fast cars with your backyard built, rigged up ride, then do yourself a favor… come back down to reality and change. just be the normal guy at the track doing it right, working hard at getting the driving right, and having fun.
well if you want to attempt to beat me with a stick, go right ahead, but after you toast every motor you dont throw and intercooler on, you will realize that you really need to be beating yourself. you see, thats what the point of my post was: do it right the first time, bc you are an idiot if you dont. who does it wrong the first time deliberately? when it comes to turbos, im right on this; do the research. intercooling is the only way to go for your turbo honda. anyone who skips the intercooler completely and relies on water injection im going to throw into the “uninformed” catagory for sake of offending you, because i REALLY dont want you to think that this is a personal attack and im calling you an idiot. that simply isnt the case; im trying to help you here. i challenge you to build a turbo car with no intercooler, add the intercooler, retune it, and make less power. do it! if you can, i dare you! i triple dog dare you. now me, i cant stand it when people are dead set on doing it the wrong way no matter how many people try to tell them otherwise. do you think we are telling you that to keep you slow, or so you are more like us? what do you suppose my motive is? why would i post on here if all i wanted to do was vent negativity? i want to see everyone with a g2 informed, and winning races, again and again.
[QUOTE=Anubis_4_99;1753758] by the way, that car was also my daily driver for 8 months before i bought somethin else
[/QUOTE]
please. 8 months is no amount of time for something to live up to everyday abuse and be any kind of substaniative testament to your theory. do you have one timeslip before and after water injection? how do you tune you car? do you have any datalogs? anything?
lastly, im a mustang guy too and i must say those guys have been doing it a LOT longer than we have and if intercoolers werent so important, then all the guys wouldnt be using them. ford would have produced the 03 cobra (which lightly modded will smoke any g2 on this board) without one and used water injection. there is a reason that they didnt. anyone care to speculate?
That reminds me, I have to change the rear differential fluid in my Integra this weekend. :hmm:
:giggle:
oh man lol…i was too busy addressing the issue of “hard-headed” to even notice…
anubis please clarify what car it was that you were running with no intercooler and rwd that tore up 7 rearends? if it makes you feel any better ive gone through about that many sets of axles… gotta love that lifetime warranty.
oh man lol…i was too busy addressing the issue of “hard-headed” to even notice…
anubis please clarify what car it was that you were running with no intercooler and rwd that tore up 7 rearends? if it makes you feel any better ive gone through about that many sets of axles… gotta love that lifetime warranty.[/QUOTE]
i barely got though your post without falling asleep, so hopefully i can make it through writeing this
first off, i never said water injection was a cure all, and never said it was the right way. i simply stated i did it. and unless you know someone giveing away intercooler, you wouldnt be able to put an IC on your car for what i did my water injection for (which was $0)
90% of my rear end trouble was from burnouts, all of them tore the spider gears apart because of them. yes i abused that car every day and every night, and i will not argue about that. but i never had a single motor related problem. it was my daily driver for 8 months, and i sold it to a friend who is still driveing it today on the same setup (more then 2 years later)
im glad your a mustang guy (whatever bearing that has on this discussion) really, im jumping up and down im so excited.
the car i ran that setup on had no ECU, so no i dont have any datalogs or otherwise. yes i like to be diffrent, who doesnt? who goes through life thinking “i want my car to be like everyone elses” please. we mod cars to get noticed for being diffrent.
as far as hard headed, again i say i took none of that personally, and in no way said water injection was the best thing on this planet, i simply said it worked for me more then well enough to get me by without an intercooler
to be honest i am surprised that car is still running to this day, considering how much boost i threw at it, how many times i abused it, and certinaly after the time i drove it for 50 miles with no coolant without noticeing (rad cap came off and it was in the normal heat range while above 50MPH)
now after all that, i say once again. WATER INJECTION WORKS.
i was giving it as a suggestion to someone who asked for input. from how he worded his question (which was badly and almost to the point of being un-readable) he seemed to me to be asking for alternitaves
this site, or any other, doesnt exsist to boss people around or try to scare them into useing something they dont want to. it is here to offer advice, opinions, and information for people who seek it. it is that persons choice what they want to do and to be honest im very surprised you got so uppity over me saying water injection did a good job in my setup.
in my posts i even said an IC was a good idea, the reason i didnt run one was because the car wasnt fuel injected and i didnt want to bother with all the changes i would need to do to simply put an intercooler on.
now after all that i could go into detail about what cars i raced, or whatever, but to be honest i dont care what you think are slow cars or what you think of anything really for that matter, because weither you think so or not that entire post you made was an attack, and a pretty sad one. i will let you think what you wish about my car or what my setup was like.
and for everyones info here was the setup
1972 datsun 510 4 door
Engine: L-16, bored out, ported and polished head, T3 60/63 turbo, (NO IC), water injection setup (made from the washer fluid bottle) to engage at 4psi via a pressure switch i had laying around.
open rear diff (which is part of the reason i went through 7) with 4:11 gear ratio, twin disk clutch
the DA is just the current beater. once i move im getting a 510 with a KA swap and turboing it. and now i may just leave the IC out because you seem so against it
lol ok i offended you dude… we get it… that post made very little sense, and no points… you didnt answer any of my serious questions. read the mans question again. he did not ask for alternatives. you inferred that that it was not implied. it was a poorly worded question anyway and im sure he will agree to that. the best advice came from g2tegguy. he completely answered his question, but look at what he said specifically. he said “hell no.” running without an intercooler is a horrible idea. using water injection for a daily driven car as the only means of intercooling isnt that great of idea either. it will work to suppress detonation and cool charge temps, but it is a BAND AID. i am not going to get on this board and spit out bullshit advice. dont encourage people to slap some crap together and go to the track. dont come on here and give bad advice like that to people or its gonna end up like honda-tech. just tell him the truth… tell him it worked for you, your car lasted with it for a while, but that it in the grand scheme of things it is a tuning band aid and that an intercooler is probably the best way to go in this day in age bc they work all the time and more are efficient and are really cheap now, and you just wanted to be different and thats why you did it. dude seriously id love to hear about your water injection exploits in a thread about that; start one, we can be friends… the topic is very interesting to me and i respect anyone that successfully utilized it. its bad enough that someone gets in the FI forum talking about not doing an intercooler (which none of us should advice him to do) when there is already PLENTY of material on this website talking about what a bad idea that is and why. im personally not gonna reiterate it. search. read. but for the love of god dont get on here and talk about water injection like it acts in place of an intercooler, especially on a daily driven car. its a tuning band aid. intercooling allows you to run more compression and/or timing, higher boost, ultimately more cylinder pressure on the same octane. you tune the car differently after the addition of the intercooler to take advantage of this. people run water injection to make up for not having an intercooler while trying to tune a car like it has one. thats all there is to it, its a band aid. you can get a good enough intercooler for that low boost turbo system for 50-200 easy. get one… good advice. dont be cheap on your turbo system… more good advice. there is a reason 99.9% of people with turbo systems on their hondas out there are running around with an intercooler… look into that customteg and then you will know if and why you need an intercooler or not. the information is already here and on other boards. thats about all i got to say on this topic.
in my original post i said exactly what you all have said, and also qouted my personal experience. i in no way said water injection was the best thing for boosted apps. i said it worked on mine
29 Sep 2007 23:29:14
Anubis_4_99 it is reccomended to help drop intake temps and lower the chance of detenation and power robbing heat
is it required? no
i ran one of my old setups without one for nearly a year and it ran great
one idea if you’d like to avoid an intercooler is to run water injection, helps lessen the chance of detenation and lowers intake temps a bit as well, that is what i used
i presented him with the info he asked for, told him an IC was a good idea, and also that water injection worked well for me.
i’ll leave this as my last post. you didnt really offend me untill the last post that reffered to “hard-headed” when as far as i saw it i said what everyone else was saying, while stateing my experience with something else. i was in no way saying intercoolers are worthless
do you actually have a teg? i thought you just had that reallllly nice tsx (if thats what it is, the white one on gold rims)
Anubis, wanna get together for a beer sometime?
I’m in b’vue.
Yessiree. I have a 92 GS.
anubis, im sorry if i offended you calling you hard headed. all i meant by that was that we were having it out over whether or not water injection was a band aid or not and we didnt agree. that had nothing to do with anything else about what you said. i figured thats what we were really arguing about anyway, not whether or not customteg actually needs an intercooler… i think we were both very clear on that issue, and agreed. im also sorry i blew that out of proportion i just wanted to make sure he was getting good advice, and i guess i misunderstood your direction in how you gave yours. perhaps you misunderstood my reasoning initially as well. apparently thats not the case anymore… now that we arent miscommunicating anymore and our beef is smoothing out, im gonna throw this out there to get back on topic and hopefully help customteg understand the realistic costs of an intercooler. for low boost, im assuming, given that you didnt want an ic… you might as well get the starion intercooler… here are some i found on ebay… $20 and $30 bucks…
here is a link to a thread that talks about a good place to get cheap, quality charge piping.
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172116
i hope that helps… after all, thats what im trying to do here…
jake you fucking pussy.
i expect your mancard in the mail within 7 business days.