O.k. o.k., I know there are a million posts regarding this very same question. I have read hundreds of paragraphs in the past few weeks. I have also done massive research on the matter. After careful consideration I have decided to go all out LS. I will end up with a turbo boostin 10-15 psi and a 50-60 shot of nitrous. As a newbie I am sure someone is bound to flame me for this question but, I will still ask in the hopes that I won’t get burned at the stake.
After reading all the posts I wandered…"How outdated is this stuff…What are the new products available today? Etc etc…
My question is; will you guys make some suggestions on how you would build my engine if it were yours. What would you use, why you would use it and a general price on it?
What should I rebuild it with, considering she has 200,000 miles on her?
I also am wandering with a reinforced engine, what type of BHP and 1/4 mile times am I looking at. What would I have to do to get into the 13’s on a daily driver? Is that even realistic? I would love to get into the high 13’s with full interior. I don’t want to buy a new engine every 10 months. I am looking for reliability and power! (Sadly enough, I know those two word are contradicting of one another).
Just to let you know after reading the engine swap guide in the Teg Tips, I decided against the b18c, because of the Trans swap. I am also weary of the b16 series engines because of the high compression; I think that’s asking for trouble with a turbo.
The only modifications I have at this time are:
-HKS Hiper Cat back
-Carsound High Flow Cat
-DC Stainless Header
All of the above have been custom glass coated for better airflow and protection against the elements.
-AEM Cold Air Intake
-Morosso 8.5 mm Wires
-NGK Plugs
-Racing axles
-Exedy Racing Clutch/Pressure Plate /Throw out bearing/Pilot bearing
I would appreciate opinions from everyone willing to give them. Pictures, or dynos would also be appreciated.
Thanks for everyone’s Time!!
So do you plan on building your engine for turbo or NA?? Or are you going to slowly build it up NA with turbo intentions??
The ways that you build those two applications are totally different.
Well, my intentions BR were to do just that build it up NA with Turbo intentions. There is no way to do that…? or are you saying I should wait until I have the turbo then start to build the engine?
building for turbo is going to be completely different from NA. Just to mention a couple things.
Cams: when building for NA you’re going to want to go as big as possible w/o having streetability problems. when building for turbo you want some milder cams.
Compression: when building for NA you’re going to want to go as high as possible and still be safe for your needs. With turbo you’re going to want to keep a relatively low compression ratio.
Strength: An NA motor is going to endure significantly less strain than a turbo motor. So there isn’t as much of a need to go all out. Depending on how much boost you want to run you’re going to want to get aftermarket pistons, rods and possibly resleeve the block. With most NA setups all 3 of those parts can be left oem.
If you build the motor up with the possibility of turbo in the future you’d better be sure you’re going to get that turbo. Because if you don’t you’re going to be left with a motor you dumped a lot of $$ into and really isn’t that strong. If you build it up for NA and not for turbo but decide to go turbo anyway you’re going to most likely either blow your motor or if you’re smart you’ll want to replace some stuff to make the motor a bit more turbo friendly.
Originally posted by ncollini Thanks for the info 91IntegGS thats something to think about. What do you think is the most power I can produce NA…? BHP and torq?
With the LS?
well, once you get around 160-170whp you’re going to start sacrificing streetablity (the actual whp number will depend on your preferences, for some a 170whp b18a is streetable, for others anything over about 155-160whp would be too much for the street). 2 huge factors in your hp output are going to be compression ratio and cams. There is only so high you can go with your CR on pump gas and still have a motor that is safe for a daily driver. And for cams you’ll start loosing the ability to idle well. Most people agree that crower 403’s are just about perfect, the idle is good (not exactly stock, but close if tuned right)…although some still don’t like the 403’s as street cams. Still others are perfectly happy to run the 404’s, which will definitely affect idle…how bad will depend on how its tuned.
Member teg92 (i think thats it) has a pretty strong LS motor, its pretty much fully built…its a very nice motor. Max (e-da9) also has a built b18a, however he’s in the process of tearing it down and fixing it up a little more.
You can make VERY strong LS motors, but when compared to a vtec motor they can’t go as far and still be as streetable. But if you’re thinking turbo…neither a built LS or vtec motor is going to come close. the hp and tq you will get from a turbo are going to be pretty high. But i’m sure you’ve done your reading up on FI setups and the extra considerations that need to be taken when going that route.
What about building up a B18b instead of a B18a? Pick up a used one at a junkyard, put it in the garage and start tearing it down. That way, you have the b18a in your car and you still have transportation.
Colin has covered the basics pretty well as far as building a motor goes.
The thing is, when your building a motor for turbo your actually making a SLOWER motor than what you have by lowering your compression ratio. This is done so that the turbo will work to its full potential by changing the way that then cylinders fire. I am not going to get into detail about that here.
If you take a turboed car and take the turbo off, you have a slow car (that is unless they went with a high CR and kinda big cams and just slapped the turbo on for the hell of it to squeeze out a few more hp’s).
I recommend that you spend a LOT of time in the FI forum and hop around to other boards such as honda-tech and get all the info that you can.
On a side note. I wouldnt recommend going turbo unless you know how to work on your car. The last thing you need to worry about is having something fixed when it breaks, because it WILL break with turbo sooner or later.
It is also good to have a decent knowledge on tuning a turbo setup which can be learned in the process of the build.
Just spend another 6 months studying up on it and asking questions and you should have a coarse set in your mind as to what you want to do with your car.
couldn’t have said it better jason. research and gaining a good knowledge base is KEY to building a motor. If you don’t study up you’re going to make mistakes. Its better to hold off and wait a little while till the motor gets built while you’re learning all you can. I know i spent easily a full year learning everything i could about my build. I did numerous searches, asked questions and read everything i could get my hands on. Its definitely paid off.
Yep, and then there is the fact that you NEVER stop learning.
I have been studying up on this stuff for the past few years a lot more than I used to and I have finally come to a conclusion as to what I am going to build for my teg.
I am really glad that I waited too because there is a lot of stupid little stuff you learn along the way that you would have never thought of before.
Study up and ask lots of questions. It is the best way to learn.
i see you eventually want to go turbo…in that case, my suggestions:
-Golden Eagle sleeves thru www.vsracingparts.com best prices around, he’s a honda-tech guy very good to work with. $700-ish shipped back to you.
-Crower rods (with 15 psi and a 50-shot, best to be safe). price varies, but don’t expect to pay less than $600.
-JE or wiseco/endyn pistons, 9.something:1
-micropolished and balanced crank
-JDM ITR flywheel
-RPS stage II clutch
-Stock cams (yes, stock) with your choice of afmkt. gears
-Crower valvetrain (springs and retainers)
-Ferrea valves
-DPR, Allianz, or Portflow headwork
-Extrudehoned intake manifold or skunk2 manifold
-JDMhondaparts.com throttle body
-Hondata s200 with boost
-MSD or RC injectors (at least 60lb/hr or 600cc/min)
There’s others but i’m just not thinking of them right now.
Why vtec…Thats seems pointless, If I dont need aggresive cams why would I worry about the transferance betweeen lobes? A vtec head seems like a waste, if it is used in conjunction with a turbo. Correct me if I am wrong?:shrug:
Originally posted by ncollini Why vtec…Thats seems pointless, If I dont need aggresive cams why would I worry about the transferance betweeen lobes? A vtec head seems like a waste, if it is used in conjunction with a turbo. Correct me if I am wrong?:shrug:
Basically, he is recommending that you do an LS/VTEC with boost. I have seen it done, I have ridden in a teg with that done and it is fast. The only problem is that reliability goes right out the door and I wouldnt recommend doing that to anyone who doesnt like long days of working on their car (all the time).
Maybe someday down the road you will go with an LS/VTEC swap with boost, but you have a LOT to learn before you get to that point. Take it one step at a time.
So BR let me ask you this… How is your teg setup? Can I buy anything that is interchangeable between NA and turbo? Also, what would I benifit by goimg with a b18b vs. b18a. And does the b18a just bolt in with no mods? How about the tranny for the b18a is that the same? will it bolt up to a b18a block…?
I really do appreciate you fellas taking the time out to help me.
My setup is purely naturally aspirated. I dont want to use any FI with my teg, maybe in some other car in the future.
There are parts that you can buy that are interchangeable but I dont want to get into that because I dont want to give bad advice. I havent taken much time to study up on FI applications and I dont want to give you bad or wrong information.
You can ask me any NA question that you want and I can probably answer it though.
The b18a and the b18b engines are the same thing, they just came in different cars. The b18a in the G2 teg and the b18b in the G3 teg.
The tranny is different on the b18a than the b18b though. The G3 tegs use a hydraulic tranny whereas the G2 tegs use the cable tranny.
Any b-series tranny will bolt up to any b-series block and any b-series engine will bolt into any car that a b-series engine came out of. There are companies that make mounts that allow the b-series engines to bolt into other applications such as civics though.
I would assume that an LS would be comfortable up to probably 160-170whp depending on what you did to get it that high. That would come out to around 180-190bhp.
If I had to guess my whp I would say 145-150, but that is just a guess. That is with a mildly built LS and it is considerably streetable. I could make it really streetable by adjusting my cam gears back to 0, but I like the extra power I get by having them adjusted out.
The cost of what it takes to get to that point really depends on the person building the engine. Are they patient enough to wait around for good deals on the parts that they want or are they in such a hurry to build it that they spend thousands more dollars in their haste than if they were to take their time?
1/4 mile times for an LS with that much power should be in the mid 14’s.
Ok BR so, I can bolt a b18b trans to my b18a engine…I would assume that being a hyraulic tranny means that my new clutch will not work with the new trans. I was under the impression that the b18b engines were 10+ hoarses more than the g2’s…? Kinda like the 90-91 and the 92-93 LS…?
