Gen2 w/ B18c Swap - Questions

Im researching a swap that I am planning to do.

Friend of mine has a '91 Integra LS (5spd) that doesnt run.
Same friend also has a B18C1 and all other parts from a '95 Integra GSR. Im not building this for all out performance, its just going to be a fast beater.

I want to put the B18C1 in the Gen2. Ive been using the Swap Guide on G2IC.com for guidance. But I have a few questions that I need answered.

1.) Transmission I realize that the car is setup for a cable tranny and the Y80 from the '95 GSR is hydro. Id like to use the Y80 if possible but I cant find anyone who makes a hydro/cable conversion. Place Racing and HASport do NOT make one. Can I use the Y1 cable tranny from the '91 Gen2 with the B18C1?

2.) ECU/Wiring The swap guide says “Because you cannot use the P72 ECU that controls the secondaries in the intake manifold”. Why not? I would think I would NEED the OBD-I P72 ECU/Harness out of the '95 GSR for this to work - which I have. It says I cannot use the P72 with the Gen2 harness - but I have the GSR harness tho. Cant I swap the '95 GSR Harness/ECU over to the Gen2?

You can use the Y1 cable transmission, as long as you use a 90-91 clutch. And you’re right, no one makes a cable to hydro kit for the G2 anymore.

You would need the non-OBD to OBD 1 harness coverter for your car. That isn’t a cheap thing, and you would be better off chucking the P72 Intake manifold, buying a skunk2 and just running a non-OBD PR3 ECU. It will be faster anyway.

I plan on using the clutch assembly out of the Gen2, now that I know I can use the Y1. Any clearance issues I should be concerned about with swapping trannys or does it bolt right up?

Why cant I move the OBD-1 P72 ECU/Harness over to the Gen2?
The Skunk2 Intake Manifold is a good option as well.

Can you forsee any other complications?

Thanks for the reply!

As long as you use your current B18A mounts with the B18C1 and Y1 transmission, you won’t have any issues.

The wiring that goes to your ECU (inside your car) is a non-OBD wiring harness. The engine harness is seperate. You could do it, but it would take a LOT of work and a ton of frustration. Ask Colin (91IntegraGS) on this board. He did an true non-OBD to OBD-1 ECU/Motor swap.

-Who makes the non-OBD to OBD1 harness converter?

-Ill take your advice and go with a non-OBD PR3 ECU with the skunk2 IM. What do I need to use the PR3 in the Gen2 with the B18c? And what car is a PR3 from?

Looks like this is all falling together. Thanks for all the help

The swap guide should tell you all you need when using the PR3 and Skunk 2 intake manifold. But I’ll post it here so there’s no confusion…

Engine: 1994-1995 USDM B18C1
Displacement: 1797cc
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Hp/Torque: 170hp@7600rpm/128lb-ft@6200
Transmission: Y80 (hydraulic)

This is an OBD-1 engine from 94-95 Integra GSRs. This motor as you can see puts out slightly more hp than the XSi B16a, but the big difference here is the torque. This motor has 16ft-lbs. more torque. Which is pretty significant. This is the only Honda motor that has the “upside down” intake manifold. It also has secondary butterflies in the dual intake manifold runners. This is the reason for the early VTEC crossover point with this motor (4400rpm). If you are worried that the B16A is not going to have enough torque for your liking, this motor is a good solution. However, with the higher performance, you will pay a higher price. Price on this motor will vary as well. Sometimes you can find a deal for about $3000, other times you may pay up to $4000 for one of these motors. Mileage on this motor will vary, because it is a US Spec motor and we don’t have to pull our motors at 40,000 miles. Many people prefer to go with the 90-91 JDM B16A not only because it is non-OBD (not as many issues when putting the motor in), but because of the cheaper price. These are the only items of concern with this swap:

• Wiring Harness-You will need to use your existing B18A1 cream plug wiring harness. It will plug into everything on the motor except for the distributor and injectors. You’ll have to add the 3 wires for VTEC, knock sensor wire, and the second oxygen sensor. Also, the temperature switch on this motor is located on the thermostat housing unlike your B18A1 which is located on the back side of the block, so you will have to cut and extend the two wire plug to reach the thermostat housing. But this is fairly easy. The gray plug harness that comes with the OBD-1 B18C1 cannot be used, but can easily be sold for $100-$125 as they are in high demand.
• Motor Mounts-Use your existing B18A1 mounts. They slightly different than the B18C1 mounts.
• Distributor-You can use your B18A distributor but the leg towards the front of the car has to be cut off to allow clearance for the VTEC purge assembly. You will only have two bolts holding your distributor, but that is adequate. You can do this or your other choice is to buy a non-OBD VTEC distributor (PR3). You can find them on the net for as little as $100, but most are priced at about $150. The OBD-1 Distributor that came with the motor cannot be used but can be sold for $150-$200.
• Intake Manifold-This is the biggest difference when using this motor. This is the only Honda motor that has the “upside down” intake manifold. It also has secondary butterflies in the dual intake manifold runners. What I recommend doing is getting rid of this manifold and TB entirely and getting the Skunk2 Intake Manifold (pre-modified to fit the P72 Head). ). Because you cannot use the P72 ECU that controls the secondaries in the intake manifold (that only the B18C1 has), this is the best solution. Then use an ITR TB or your LS TB (maybe bored out by RC Engineering). You can use an ITR Intake manifold but it needs to be modified to fit (by a machine shop),
• Injectors-You will need to use your existing non-OBD B18A1 injectors. The OBD-1 injectors have a different plug on them made for the gray OBD-1 harness. Other than that, the injectors are identical.
• ECU-This motor will come with an OBD-1 VTEC ECU (P72). You cannot use this ECU with your harness that is inside your vehicle (non-OBD). So sell it and buy a non-OBD VTEC ECU (PR3, PWO). Either one of those ECU’s will run the OBD-1 B18C1 (with Skunk2 Intake Manifold) perfectly with your B18A1 harness.
• Transmission- This engine also comes equipped with a hydraulic transmission, which either needs to be swapped out for a short geared cable transmission (J1, S1) or I believe Place Racing makes a hydraulic to cable converter that you can use. But then you are talking about more money. Again you can buy a YS1 short geared transmission, but you will need a clutch assembly from a 92-93 Integra or if the B18C1 motor came with a clutch and flywheel, you can use those.
• Clutch-Depending on what transmission you go with (90-91 or 92-up cable transmissions) will determine what clutch you should get. If you get a 91 or older cable transmission you will need a 90-91 Integra clutch assembly. If you go with the 92 up YS1 Cable transmission, you will need a 92 up Integra clutch assembly. Use the matching flywheel with the same clutch.

Below are things that I recommend doing while your motor is out and before you drop your B18C1 in:

• Replace the water pump & thermostat
• Replace the timing belt and timing belt tensioner
• Replace Cap, Rotor, and Spark plugs
• Adjust valves
• Replace valve cover gasket and spark plug seals
• Replace fuel filter
• Replace PCV valve

Didn’t bother reading the last reply but I’ll tell you this. Your going to have a bunch of fun using a non-obd wiring harness on a obd-2 motor. Switch your harness and get yourself the p-72 ecu of a chipped p-28.

DO NOT USE THE Y-1. I have a '92 Teg with a Y1 bolted to a b16a1. Its S L O W. More power, less speed due to rpm range and powerband of the b16 to the stupid long gears in the y1.

The B18c1 is out of a '95 GSR. Its OBD-1.

What kind of wiring troubles do you forsee using a OBD-I motor in a non-OBD car?

This is my beater not my racer. I just want it el cheapo. Y1 tranny will do as long as it works.

Distributor Nightmare on hookup. Vtec w/ knock and a whole bunch of goodies make your G2I harness almost useless even wth a change-over harness. Just switch it to the GSR’s harness. it will be worh your time. I went form a stock 16sec 1/4mile to a 17.5 with b16a w/ that y1. It bogs in the launch and takes for ever to get into my powerband. Mean top-end though. Car loves the highway. 149mph.

Just a quick note: my '92 has a stock Y1 but i’ve heard that some vtec tranny’s are also Y1. if you have a vtec y1, then nevermind what i’ve said about that.

Originally posted by XSIintegra
Just a quick note: my '92 has a stock Y1 but i’ve heard that some vtec tranny’s are also Y1. if you have a vtec y1, then nevermind what i’ve said about that.
All the Y1’s are from JDM VTEC engines, there is no non-VTEC Y1. The YS1 is the trans. that has a VTEC and non-VTEC counterpart and that’s what you’re referring to.

There is no nightmare using the LS wiring harness on a swapped VTEC engine!! Using the VTEC distributor for whatever OBD generation your car is will work perfectly, it plugs in and bolts up perfectly (finding a non-OBD VTEC distributor is somewhat difficult since they were only available in Japan). 1 wire needs to be run to the ECU for the knock sensor along with 1 wire for the the VTEC solenoid and press. switch. Running 3 wires to the ECU is much easier than swapping out an entire engine harness.

The question here has been answered. It’s not hard, nothing impossible, and something I do all the time. :bang:

There is no nightmare using the LS wiring harness on a swapped VTEC engine!! Using the VTEC distributor for whatever OBD generation your car is will work perfectly, it plugs in and bolts up perfectly (finding a non-OBD VTEC distributor is somewhat difficult since they were only available in Japan). 1 wire needs to be run to the ECU for the knock sensor along with 1 wire for the the VTEC solenoid and press. switch. Running 3 wires to the ECU is much easier than swapping out an entire engine harness. [/B]

Your right on the YS1 :bow: Got messed up. Might want to revise what your saying about non-obd harnesses pluging into obd-1 distributors. Granted the wires may be the same, but I put a non-obd engine in my obd-1 '92 teg and the distributor does not plug in. Nor does a obd-2 plug into a obd-1 harness. used my LS’s original obd-1 distributor and cut a leg off.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :bang:

Distributor-You can use your B18A distributor but the leg towards the front of the car has to be cut off to allow clearance for the VTEC purge assembly. You will only have two bolts holding your distributor, but that is adequate. You can do this or your other choice is to buy a non-OBD VTEC distributor (PR3). You can find them on the net for as little as $100, but most are priced at about $150. The OBD-1 Distributor that came with the motor cannot be used but can be sold for $150-$200.

Originally posted by G2guru
[B]AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :bang:

[/B]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

• ECU-This motor will come with an OBD-1 VTEC ECU (P72). You cannot use this ECU with your harness that is inside your vehicle (non-OBD). So sell it and buy a non-OBD VTEC ECU (PR3, PWO). Either one of those ECU’s will run the OBD-1 B18C1 (with Skunk2 Intake Manifold) perfectly with your B18A1 harness.

Newbie question - I know the P72 wont fit in the Gen2 harness. But cant I swap over the GSR P72 harness too? Or is that impossible.

Originally posted by Muckman
But cant I swap over the GSR P72 harness too? Or is that impossible.
Not impossible, but much more work than is necessary.

So just stick with a PR3 then? What car is that from?

Originally posted by Muckman
[B]• ECU-This motor will come with an OBD-1 VTEC ECU (P72). You cannot use this ECU with your harness that is inside your vehicle (non-OBD). So sell it and buy a non-OBD VTEC ECU (PR3, PWO). Either one of those ECU’s will run the OBD-1 B18C1 (with Skunk2 Intake Manifold) perfectly with your B18A1 harness.

Newbie question - I know the P72 wont fit in the Gen2 harness. But cant I swap over the GSR P72 harness too? Or is that impossible. [/B]

yes, you can swap over the p72 harness (engine harness) but to do so and have it plug into the car you’d also need to swap the p72 main harness into your car. Doing that is not a simple task, and since its from a G3 and not a G2 there are going to be all types of things that don’t plug into your existing accessories, lights, gauges… and will need a lot of custom wiring. In addition to all the extra wiring the swap itself is hard. The main harness starts up at the passengers side headlight, goes up the fender, passes through the firewall, across the floor board, back through the firewall, down the other fender and finally stops at the driver side headlight. This is a HUGE harness!!! Removing it and putting it into your car is not an easy task.

The Obd conversion is an option, if you’re interested in doing that please do a SEARCH, i’ve gone over the details quite a few times. Also, you can email turbo_ek@yahoo.com he sells jumper harnesses for $160 shipped.

Now, my suggestions to you:

  1. Do as the swap guide says! This is the cheapest, most effective, and most simple way to do the swap.
  2. If you’re set on running obd1 then get a jumper harness. Its not that complicated to run, but it is more work and more money.
  3. Give up on the idea of using your p72 harness!

PR3 ECU is fine :slight_smile:

Thank you for the thourough clarification. I had no idea that much was involved.

The non OBD PR3 should plug right into the Gen2 harness and it should operate the B18C1 properly right? Ive been told the fuel cut off is 8100 and the vtec crossover is 5000 on the PR3.

Those are acceptable numbers for me. Just need to get a skunk2 manifold of course. I can get a PR3 for $200. Do I need anything else to get this ECU to work with the Gen2/B18c?

Thank you guys for the wealth of information!