k, im going to build a turbo civic HB with a LS non vtec motor
i dont want a b20 block for one the cylinder walls are not as strong, LS are stronger. But im going 9:1 pistons and eagle rods, say i wanna boost like maybe 15psi racing, what else needs to be done? blockguard? girdle? what else am i not thinking of that is reccommended?
another dumb question, so far here ive heard 2 turbo hondas, i love the turbo sound, one was running like 8psi and i couldnt hear a thing, how much boost needs to be run to get good sound? haha sounds like a rice question, i just wanna know,
thanks
wade
FIRST: Sound is not entirely dependant on boost quantity. It depends on if you are running an open wastegate and BOV and what type / location you have them in. Of course, the more boost, the louder, but even 6psi is loud enough to hear from a good distance.
at 15psi on stock sleeves, you better be tuned dead nuts on with either a Zdyne, hondata or some other EMS. You will NOT be able to run it otherwise, it won’t idle and you’ll probably crack a sleeve. EDIT: A guy I know who was tuned dead on with a b18c5 and lower compression, stock sleeves at 1BAR actually balloned his sleeves untill they cracked. This is why pins will help.
B20 block, the sleeves are actually thicker and are made of FRM (fiber reinforced metal) so they are pretty strong. I have no proof of their comparable strength to any other B series except they look much beefier compared to a b18 side by side. I know this because I have one of each, actually hehe the b20 has a cracked sleeve, oh well, time for some GE action.
Block guard is okay, I would pin the block instead, any machinist can do it. They will need to calculate the position where the greatest sidewall loading occurs, pin it there, and then probably pin it again at the top. Block guards are okay, you could do a block guard at the top and pin in the middle. I don’t have a girdle or any fancy **** an my motor saw 9500 all the time. Bearings look great after 4kmiles and some are still not even 50% broken in. You can definately see where the bad rod/stroke ratio puts a load on the walls due to the wear in the two spots on either side.
Good luck, get that standalone from day one and you’ll be much
happier.
I somewhat agreee with Stizzit on the fact that if you plan on running 15 p.s.i. on stock sleeves you better have a tuner that knows what the hell he is doing.
I don’t agree with pinning the block or using a blockguard. Honda switched over to a open deck design for a reason and closing the deck does not allow for thermal expansion. closing the deck could cause raised cylib=nder temsp resulting in detonation. Golden Eagle seems to have some success with their design but I would go with an open deck design . If you want to sleeve your block, go nowhere else but Benson’s Performance Machine in Santa Ana, CA.
Definatly ONLY go GE, they are the leaders in the sleeving industry. As for pinning and blockguard - i’m not a fan of the block guard but pinning is actually a good idea. Pinning the block will not lead to raised cylinder temps because it takes up such a small area. You only pin the block in the front and the rear. At most you will probably have 16 pins, that should be enough. I can guarantee you it will not effect the cooling of the block.
BTW: Endyn has made motors with over 300whp on stock b20 sleeves.
I’m kinda confused, I thought GEM actually kinda kept the deck open, and primarily reinforced a bit lower down, and bensons closed the deck similar to darton sleeves, but I wasn’t sure, apparently I’m confused. Anyone have pics of the bensons sleeves? After AMERIKAN mentioning he liked them, I’m gonna have to look into them. Also, AMERIKAN, didn’t you get your block sleeved by GEM? I seem to recall you posting pics of it ages ago, but I may be confused and wrong about that too, but if you did, are they not working out well or something, or are there some bad stories about them? Oh, also, anyone know rough prices of getting b18 blocks sleeved at either GEM or bensons? I think I read GEM was around $900, but not 100% sure on that.
Spikius, I am just stating my preference. I sold my B20 block because I decided to go with a different setup. Here is a pic from GEM’s website.
You can see where the block is semi-closed.
Benson’s sleeved deck is open and is the way that I would go. I will look for a pic and post it. I am sure there are bad stories about any sleeved deck, but, one has look into all the factors like p.s.i., a/f ratio, etc. that may have contributed to the failure.
I just recommend that one do a lot of research on the subject and decide for themselves.
Ok, cool, thanx for the info, ya, I’m trying to find out as much as possible about all the different components since I want to build an engine for moderate boosting eventually (a year or more down the road probably, so I have plenty of time for research). I hadn’t really heard much on the bensons blocks, or seen any pics, and had never heard anyone recommend one or anything, so it kinda surprised me when you mentioned them. I have heard that bensons is great for engine work though. I’m gonna search around while at work today to see if I can find some more info on them. I have come to the conclusion that I don’t want a closed deck though, just seems too risky for making a very reliable, reasonably powerful engine. I am definitely going with a zdyne (it’s a 90) for tuning though, after reading more on a lot of the “band-aid” type tuning devices, it just doesn’t seem worth the risk when for not a TON more, you can have a bit more flexibility with tuning. Thanks for the info!
Originally posted by AMERIKAN I don’t agree with pinning the block or using a blockguard. Honda switched over to a open deck design for a reason and closing the deck does not allow for thermal expansion. closing the deck could cause raised cylib=nder temsp resulting in detonation
the highest horsepower import street cars are using closed blocks. Supras, DSMs, all the 600+hp cars are ALL closed blocks. Well, supras and DSMs run solid blocks from the factory. And we all know how fast these cars are
ya, block cement seems like a pretty bad idea, glad there are other options around nowadays. Haberdasher, you don’t happen to have pics of the benson sleeves do you? Also, if you don’t mind my asking, roughly how much were they?
Originally posted by spikius Haberdasher, you don’t happen to have pics of the benson sleeves do you? Also, if you don’t mind my asking, roughly how much were they?
Wouldn’t hurt for me to know either.
