its a cryogenic system that freezes the incoming air…do you guys think it’s legit?
http://www.stylinconcepts.com/parts.cfm/partfamilyid/1160/CategoryID/28/SubCategoryID/212
same concept as nitrous express’s ntercooler
http://www.nitrousexpress.com/productdisplay.php?sku=5183&hdwt=31101&loc=101&dealer=
i believe Ford is using their AC system in conjunction with the intake on the power stroke diesel to cool the incoming charge further than the intercooler…they are getting a lot more power.
whoa i have thought of spraying nitrous in the intake tube to get sucked up in the combustion chamber because it would be easier but i never seen one of those things CO2 things.
im skeptical. i need some dyno run sheets.
-ledfoot
Why are you skeptical? It’s the same idea as a cai, except with much colder temperatures(the colder the better)…which leads to better combustion…which leads to more horsepower.
the intake kit is close to $500 after you get the installation kit and bottle, you might as well get nitrous
I wasn’t saying that the HP you would gain would be worth the amount of $ you have to spend. I was simply stating that you would see gains in a dyno run.
gotcha
Originally posted by ledfoot
the intake kit is close to $500 after you get the installation kit and bottle, you might as well get nitrous
I know its an old post
$299.00 getting it this month. It works nice. There are a couple of domestics and imports here with them. No major engine upgrades needed for us po folk lookin for boost. 
I would not imagine that the oxygen density density is going to change that much with this kit; the idea being that colder temperatures have more O2 => more combustion. This is a similar concept to N2O, which is more dense with oxygen also. Since the air is not pressurized (is it?), I don’t see it offering the amount of HP as a nitrous kit and obviously not a turbo.
Originally posted by GSpeedR
I would not imagine that the oxygen density density is going to change that much with this kit; the idea being that colder temperatures have more O2 => more combustion. This is a similar concept to N2O, which is more dense with oxygen also. Since the air is not pressurized (is it?), I don’t see it offering the amount of HP as a nitrous kit and obviously not a turbo.
The intake drops as los as 28 degrees on a 85 degree day acording to DEI. Iv’e been talking to them for weeks. I foud some nearby running it and he (and she) love it. I need it mainly for SCCa (autocross). IT’s perfect for the hot days when you get power loss from heat while in the staging area.
Colder air is less prone to detonation.
Also CO2 is alot safer then nitrous to inject through blowers and intake piping. There’s at least a few big guys (450+ hp) who are experimenting with the setup. I don’t think it would be worthwhile on a non-boosted setup though.
–
Tom
Originally posted by GSpeedR
I would not imagine that the oxygen density density is going to change that much with this kit; the idea being that colder temperatures have more O2 => more combustion. This is a similar concept to N2O, which is more dense with oxygen also. Since the air is not pressurized (is it?), I don’t see it offering the amount of HP as a nitrous kit and obviously not a turbo.
The air density is only a part of why colder temperatures help get better performance.
Here is a quick chemistry lesson for everyone.
Yes, density does increase as air gets colder. You can figure out the increase of 02 to your engine by using PV = nRT, where P = Pressure, V = Volume, n = number of moles of molecules, R = constant, T = Temperature (in K). However, there is the problem: Pressure may change at any point in time. The weather man may say that there is a high or low pressure system coming through. If there is high pressure coming through, the number of molecules in the air may increase and hence have a higher density (or vice versa). This implies that there is more or less O2 going to your engine. Altitude also plays a factor in this.
For a moment lets assume the pressure is always constant: 1 atm. Since n and T are indirectly related, as temperature goes down, number of molecules goes up. Let’s say its 85 F and the kit takes the air down to 28 F as stated above. That’s = to 358 K and 301 K respectively. Let’s solve the equation for n. (Note: I will use 1.8 L because that is the size of most of our engines, although it would make no difference in the outcome. The constant R = .0821 atmL/molK)
PV/RT = n PV/RT = n
11.8/(.0821358) = .0612 mol of AIR 11.8/(.0821301) = .0728 mol of air
.0728/.0612 = 19 % more air. (Don’t forget 02 is only 21% of the air) This is assuming that the pressure of the air does not change. However, these additional moles of O2 are only added if the volume remains constant too. Naturally when things cool down, they shrink. (ever take a balloon from inside a hot house to outside when its cold outside?) So as the air is getting cooled it is also shrinking (I should say occupying less volume). However has the 02 actually shrunk to its normal volume size before it enters the engine or are the same number of molecules still entering the engine? Do you see where I’m going with this? Since the volume is shrinking there is not necessarily that many more moles of 02. Let’s just assume that it does. Then we also have to take into account what the actual pressure is on that day, at that altitude, at that temperature. There are just too many variables that all affect each other. I hope someone out there actually knows how to calculate all of these variables. I sure would like to know exactly how much air density plays a role. (BTW everything mentioned above is for a N/A engine. Obviously things are a bit different on forced induction engines)
Let’s move onto the actual reaction itself. The very general equation of any type of combustion is:
CxHy + O2 => CO2 + H20 + E
where x and y are the number of Carbon and Hydrogen atoms in gasoline respectively and E is energy. Gasoline doesn’t have a set formula as there are billions of different molecules in every gallon. The higher the octane, the higher the number of C and H atoms per molecule on average.
If you put stress on the left side of the equation, it runs better to the right (ie add more 02 and you get better combustion and more energy - horsepower). When you add stress to the right, it slows down the reaction. (ie add energy - heat - it slows down the reaction - less horsepower.
Now let’s think of it the other way. If you take away O2, there are less reactants, the combustion is not as good. If you take away energy (ie lower the temperature of the engine/air) there is less products. This makes the equation easier to run to the right and hence produces more horsepower.
I hope everything I said is accurate. If I’m wrong please let me know!
Originally posted by hattric3
[B]The air density is only a part of why colder temperatures help get better performance.
Here is a quick chemistry lesson for everyone.
Yes, density does increase as air gets colder. You can figure out the increase of 02 to your engine by using PV = nRT, where P = Pressure, V = Volume, n = number of moles of molecules, R = constant, T = Temperature (in K). However, there is the problem: Pressure may change at any point in time. The weather man may say that there is a high or low pressure system coming through. If there is high pressure coming through, the number of molecules in the air may increase and hence have a higher density (or vice versa). This implies that there is more or less O2 going to your engine. Altitude also plays a factor in this.
For a moment lets assume the pressure is always constant: 1 atm. Since n and T are indirectly related, as temperature goes down, number of molecules goes up. Let’s say its 85 F and the kit takes the air down to 28 F as stated above. That’s = to 358 K and 301 K respectively. Let’s solve the equation for n. (Note: I will use 1.8 L because that is the size of most of our engines, although it would make no difference in the outcome. The constant R = .0821 atmL/molK)
PV/RT = n PV/RT = n
11.8/(.0821358) = .0612 mol of AIR 11.8/(.0821301) = .0728 mol of air
.0728/.0612 = 19 % more air. (Don’t forget 02 is only 21% of the air) This is assuming that the pressure of the air does not change. However, these additional moles of O2 are only added if the volume remains constant too. Naturally when things cool down, they shrink. (ever take a balloon from inside a hot house to outside when its cold outside?) So as the air is getting cooled it is also shrinking (I should say occupying less volume). However has the 02 actually shrunk to its normal volume size before it enters the engine or are the same number of molecules still entering the engine? Do you see where I’m going with this? Since the volume is shrinking there is not necessarily that many more moles of 02. Let’s just assume that it does. Then we also have to take into account what the actual pressure is on that day, at that altitude, at that temperature. There are just too many variables that all affect each other. I hope someone out there actually knows how to calculate all of these variables. I sure would like to know exactly how much air density plays a role. (BTW everything mentioned above is for a N/A engine. Obviously things are a bit different on forced induction engines)
Let’s move onto the actual reaction itself. The very general equation of any type of combustion is:
CxHy + O2 => CO2 + H20 + E
where x and y are the number of Carbon and Hydrogen atoms in gasoline respectively and E is energy. Gasoline doesn’t have a set formula as there are billions of different molecules in every gallon. The higher the octane, the higher the number of C and H atoms per molecule on average.
If you put stress on the left side of the equation, it runs better to the right (ie add more 02 and you get better combustion and more energy - horsepower). When you add stress to the right, it slows down the reaction. (ie add energy - heat - it slows down the reaction - less horsepower.
Now let’s think of it the other way. If you take away O2, there are less reactants, the combustion is not as good. If you take away energy (ie lower the temperature of the engine/air) there is less products. This makes the equation easier to run to the right and hence produces more horsepower.
I hope everything I said is accurate. If I’m wrong please let me know! [/B]
All you said is right, but this thing works. I’ve seen it. I didnt check to see where you live, but here in Rochester it get COLD! On cold days /cold starts your car runs a higher mixture untill the car is warm. The DEI system creates thhis about 2-3 times stronger without taxing the stock components. Believe me it’s slick. If you got cash for engine upgrades and No2 go for it. For us [penny pinchers this thing is great. I can’t afford to run NOS and blow up my daily driver and make my kids walked to daycare, lol - but I should have to sacrifice driving around stock!
hattric3: I don’t really see how that’s different than what I said, unless there’s confusion of terms. I used oxygen density to refer to the mass of O2 essentially the same as molecules minus some stoichiometry (convert mass to moles and moles to molecules). This kit only changes the Temperature of the incoming air, and therefore the pressure will decrease unless more molecules are involved.
I was hoping someone wouldn’t get into that. 
Originally posted by GSpeedR
This kit only changes the Temperature of the incoming air, and therefore the pressure will decrease unless more molecules are involved.
So why is there a change in pressure and not volume? Why not a change in both?
–
Tom
pressure and volume have nothing to do with this. your chemistry facts are correct, but your personal interpretation of them is very innacurate. assume you have two cars exactly alike and running down a drag strip at the same time. both cars are running in the same pressure atmosphere because gas pressures are always consistent within the same container (the atmosphere of earth is the container in this interpretation). volume is also constant between the two cars because they have the same displacement. this gives us a new equation for our gas law that is appropriate for this interpretation.
1 = nRT
this makes pressure and ‘number of moles present’ inversely proportional. this means, as one decreases, the other must increase. and vice versa. so, as the temperature decreases, the number of moles increases.
now we understand how this thing gets more oxygen in the motor (it does work, i just proved it). the other thing to consider is that there is also something know as the limiting reactant. at this point with the device installed, gas just became the limiting reactant. a reaction can only produce as much as the limiting reactant supplies (it’s called stoichiometry). so, even though there is more oxygen, you still need to get more fuel to get the full effect of the upgrade.
any questions?
real9999: The cylinder dimensions have not changed, hence the volume remains the same.
Originally posted by TennTechMan
pressure and volume have nothing to do with this. your chemistry facts are correct, but your personal interpretation of them is very innacurate.
I don’t see where I made a personal interpretation. You must be talking about where I stated “This kit only changes the Temperature of the incoming air, and therefore the pressure will decrease unless more molecules are involved.”
PV = nRT. If volume cannot be changed, R cannot be changed, and T is changed, then either P or n must change. That’s all I’m saying. Take a gas in a enclosed bottle and heat it up. V is the same, n is the same, and R is the same, but P changes.
both cars are running in the same pressure atmosphere because gas pressures are always consistent within the same container (the atmosphere of earth is the container in this interpretation).
Considering that the combistion process takes place in the cylinder at TDC I think that we should consider the piston at full stroke the container. Anyway…
this makes pressure and ‘number of moles present’ inversely proportional. this means, as one decreases, the other must increase. and vice versa. so, as the temperature decreases, the number of moles increases.
I’m going to assume you mean T and n being inversely proportional. Pressure and “n” are directly proportional, but that’s probably a typo.
now we understand how this thing gets more oxygen in the motor (it does work, i just proved it).
I think we understood that before this post started.
the other thing to consider is that there is also something know as the limiting reactant. at this point with the device installed, gas just became the limiting reactant. a reaction can only produce as much as the limiting reactant supplies (it’s called stoichiometry). so, even though there is more oxygen, you still need to get more fuel to get the full effect of the upgrade.
Yep.
any questions?
Yeah. Why did you feel the need to ask that? Maybe I am really missing something, but I still don’t see anything new.
Originally posted by GSpeedR
The cylinder dimensions have not changed, hence the volume remains the same.
Since the setup injects into the intake tract can you really restrict the gas to a static volume in the combustion chamber? Perhaps if the crank was at a standstill with closed valves, while heat was extracted from the system, the theory might stand. However, in the dynamic situation of an engine, this simply isn’t the case. Density, pressure, and temperature are all continuously changing variables throughout an engine cycle. You can not accurately determine engine performance based on a static model.
And any proof based on nothing but ideal gases won’t hold any weight in the real world. You can crunch as many numbers as you want, but at the end of the day, the only way to truly know the effectiveness of a setup is to test it on an actual running engine.
–
Tom