Hoping to hear from FCM here, but anybody else’s advice is appreciated.
I tried doing the thing where you turn the key to start and let it spring back to run repeatedly to see if there is anything wrong with the high current contacts in the starter solenoid. When I do it, there is no response from the starter whatsoever.
Also, I hooked my multimeter’s positive lead to the trigger wire on the starter and put the negative lead of the multimeter on the battery’s negative (to ground), and had somebody turn the key to start. The multimeter reads 11.05volts (there was 12.3 volts in the battery itself at the time of the test). DOES A READING CLOSE TO, BUT NOT QUITE, 12V MEAN THE IGNITION SWITCH IS BAD FOR SURE?
Also, I know it is not a bad clutch interlock switch because if i turn the key to start THEN push in the clutch, i can hear a relay click very quietly to the right of the center console.
-Dustin
UPDATE: I cleaned the Battery->Chassis->Transmission (clutch cable mounting bracket) grounds w/ sandpaper and the battery lugs and terminals. I tried starting it once more and after a long delay, while holding the key in the start position, the starter did kick on and the engine started. I’m not sure cleaning the grounds had anything to do with this, however. THIS IS REALLY TICKING ME OFF, THE INTERMITTENT NATURE OF THE PROBLEM IS MAKING IT REALLY HARD TO DIAGNOSE!
Sounds like it is a problem with the starter solenoid, 11.05V should still engage the solenoid.
Try a “bypass jump”, eliminate the ign. switch and starter relay and their wiring as the problem by supplying power directly to the solenoid trigger, you can jump from the batt. connection terminal on the starter motor or from the batt. pos.(+) terminal itself to the solenoid trigger input on the starter motor solenoid, CAUTION make sure car is not in gear, starter motor will engage even if car is in gear and/or ign. switch is off. 94
I jumped from the positive terminal to the starter trigger contact w/ a piece of 12-gauge wire. The starter clicked loudly twice then proceeded to turn over just fine. Every subsequent time I touched the jumper wire to the trigger contact, it turned over fine with out the loud click. After I did the test, I tried starting the car, it was in a short delay situation, I could count 1 mississippi, 2 mississippi with the key in the start position before the starter kicked on. Like I said, I’ve experienced much longer delays and some no starts.
Right now I’ve got the ignition switch entirely out of the car and in the house to look at. I may open it up if I can figure out how but I am worried about a lot of parts falling out. What I did notice on the switch is that the thick gauge WHITE and BLACK/WHITE wires have been spliced with slightly thinner gauge wire (perhaps something to do with an alarm the car may have had?). Pictures below. Would these perhaps shoddy splices cause the long delay and/or no-start?
If the “bypass jump” works properly it eliminates the starter and starter solenoid as the problem.
Replacing or repairing the ign. switch harness will fix your problem, or eliminate it as the issue, crimp connections like that can definitely cause a drop in voltage, both the starter lead, [black/white] and power to the ign. switch, [white] have been cut and crimped, a proper repair job would mean “splicing wrapping soldering and insulating” not hard to so if you can solder, [and have, or can borrow] a soldering gun and some 60/40 resin core solder and some same gauge wire to fill the gap.94
The switch is easy to take apart and clean. I used an industrial degreaser on all of the contacts, and applied a tiny amount of dielectric grease before reassembling it.
It helps a lot but wasn’t the actual problem. I have an auto, and the problem for me was a weak connection from my neutral safety switch to the starter via the 5 clip plastic harness. Check your pronged clip connections and starter relay clip (you have one plastic clip coming straight from your ign switch BLK/WHT with a few other wires) and make sure the prongs inside are not worn, burnt, or bent out of shape. Fairly easy to check but it will eliminate it as a potential problem. I didn’t know that was my problem until I decided to shake my a/t harness in a fit of frustrated rage, only to find after that my car started flawlessly. It’s always the stupid shit, too.
I got the switch open and cleaned. I scuffed up the contacts a little bit as well with some sand paper. The contacts seemed fine before though. There was a little bit of a sticky black grease in there, on all the contacts. Would that have been applied in the factory or was it likely that it was from me putting some of that key cylinder graphite lube (that comes in an aerosol type dispenser to help free up the tumbler from binding)?
Where should I apply the small amount of dielectric grease? On the contacts or on the other friction surfaces?
EDIT: I’ve been trying to solder the splices together but my soldering iron must be too week because the wire is sinking the heat out faster than the soldering iron can apply it. Advance Auto Parts has a Niehoff brand ($43.99) and BWD ($74.99) brand ignition switch for the car and they could get it quicker than the dealer can. Any opinions on either of these brands?
Update: Well I finally got the connections soldered and the cleaned out the switch and put trace amounts of dielectric grease on the contacts. It seems to start without delay now. I’ll just have to wait and see if I encounter the problem again.
A couple weird things tho: I turn to RUN (position II) and the the battery and check engine lights are on, then the check engine light goes off when the PFM-FI Relay clicks. Then I turned to START (Position III) and the battery light flickers and then goes off and there is some clicking noise. Also, in the RUN position, twice I noticed the fan wouldn’t work, then i wiggled the key slightly and it began to work. Perhaps I didn’t get the switch perfectly re-assembled.
WHAT SHOULD WORK IN THE ACC (I) POSITION AND WHAT SHOULD WORK IN THE RUN (II) POSITION?
…also still curious about opinions on the Niehoff and BWD brand switches from Advance because I may still end up buying a new switch.
I got a new switch from the dealer ($74 and change). It seems to have fixed the problem! No delay at all… and it started after sitting in the cold for 3 days.
I think I’m having the exact same issue. It’s been intermittent too!
I attempt to start and all that happens is clicking. I can hear the starter relay engaging and disengaging rapidly, and I also hear the starter solenoid clicking. Sometimes the dash lights won’t come on in the run position. It usually starts after a few tries, but wouldn’t turn over this morning. Just clicking.
The battery is new and fully charged. I know my ground cable should be replaced as the end doesn’t always tighten down on the terminal (after removing and reinstalling the neg. cable), although it is tight now and I have cleaned it recently. I wouldn’t be surprised if I had the same shoddy splices in the harness because I have an aftermarket remote start/keyless entry unit that was installed rather poorly (wiring just stuffed under the dash panel).
The problem only seemed to pop up when my remote start was armed overnight, but now it won’t start at all. I’ve got a new OEM switch on order and I’m going to tear apart the existing one tonight.
If it is happening mainly after “my remote start was armed overnight” it would indicate that the remote start has a starter cut relay installed and the relay itself, [or connections to it] is bad.
What is the MM&Y of your car?
What is the make and model of the remote start?
Assuming it is a G2, I would check the ign. switch wiring, trace the black/white, [starter wire] from the ign, switch to the plug clipped to the fuse box, if the black/white lead has been cut and a relay has been installed on it, remove the relay and reconnect the black/white lead, of if the lead has been cut and leads from the remote start, [built in starter kill] are connected to it, remove the remote start leads and reconnect the black/white lead:corn: 94
My car is a 92 Integra with a manual transmission. The remote start is a discontinued ProStart unit from Canadian Tire. I believe the model number is CT-3260. That’s the only one I could find on their website that has a two-button remote like mine does. It was installed in the car when I bought it.
The wiring schematic does show an optional starter kill relay. I’ll check if there’s one installed.
To elaborate, I first noticed the issue when I tried to start the car remotely and came out to find it repeatedly trying to start without cranking. Deactivating the system altogether with the valet switch seemed to solve the problem. I’ve been leaving it like that ever since, but this time (yesterday after work and this morning) the problem resurfaced while the switch was off.
OK, a ProStart, I am familiar with the unit, have installed a lot of them over the years and find them generally very dependable units, first developed and built in Winnipeg Manitoba under the names AutoStart, PolarStart and ProStart, [Canadian Tire store brand] anywayyyyyy…
Unless the starter cut relay was added, [off-board relay] obviously a bad relay is not the problem, so that leaves either connections as the problem or something else, because the remote start had a problem cranking the engine, it is unlikely that the ign, switch is the problem as the remote start is “tagged in” after the switch, if it is not cranking the engine I would have a close look at where and how it is connected to the cars starter lead, [black/white], if a “T” tap was used it could account for both the remote start and the ign. switch not being able to start the car, [crank engine over] “T” taps have a nasty habit of not just cutting through the wires insulation but also cutting the wire strands that make up the lead.
Check that first.94
Okay, I just got the lower dash panel off and had a look. It’s actually a CT-3160. I’ve got a wiring diagram for it and I’m going to attempt to trace the black/white lead and inspect the splice.
There appear to be two external relays. I think one may be for the power locks (keyless entry).
Key-less entry would require 2 relays. [one for lock and one for unlock] assuming the power door locks are not stock, if your car has stock power door locks, no relays are needed.:whisper:94
My power door locks are factory. I didn’t have time last night to fully trace the wires from the two relays, unfortunately. I should mention that my doors lock when the brake pedal is depressed, and I think they unlock when the ignition is shut off. Would that be controlled by the relays?
There’s definitely no external starter kill relay. The spot for it isn’t used.
I traced the black/white lead and the splice is made right near the 5-pin terminal of the ignition switch lead (on the ignition switch side). It looks like all the other splices are made at the same spot. There’s a lot of electrical tape covering the splices, but I think they’re soldered. I didn’t get all the tape off yet though.
I tested the switch as per the Helms manual and there is continuity between the white and black/white terminals of the 5-pin connector when the ignition is in position III. So I’m thinking either it’s okay or it’s only making intermittent contact.
I’m going to try a bypass jump next and inspect my engine compartment grounds.
If there is electrical tape covering the connections of the remote start lead to the ign. harness leads then “T” taps were not used, your problem is someplace else.
One of the relays my be for the CIS, [clutch interlock switch] bypass, as car is a standard, although a relay is not need on a G2, many installers still put them on.
Is the white, GWR, [ground when running] lead from the brains 12 pin connector connected to one of the relays?
If so trace the other leads from the relay to the CIS and remove all of it, make sure the CIS switches black and blue/black leads are intact, try and start car with key, if car starts connect the remote starts white GWR lead directly to the blue/black lead of the CIS.
All the CIS is doing is supplying the starter relay with a ground when you step on the clutch, black is constant ground into the CIS and blue/black is a switched ground output from the CIS to the starter relay.
If any of that is not working properly engine will not turn over.
A bypass jump is a good way to determine if problem is before or after the starter solenoid trigger input.
BE CAREFULL make sure car is not in gear and hand brake is set, engine will turn over whether ign. is on or not, car is in gear or not , if clutch is stepped on or not, assuming there is nothing wrong with starter solenoid, starter or wiring going to it and batt. to chassis and chassis to engine grounds are good.94
As it turns out, the white GWR lead was shared between the two relays. It was connected directly to one relay, and the other relay had a lead spliced into it. The first relay was connected to the clutch interlock switch, and the second to the brake switch.
I removed the leads between the relay and CIS and it fired right up. However, when I tested the relay there was continuity across the blue/black and black terminals when 12V was applied, and there is an audible click. Does that mean the relay is good and the problem was in the wiring or possibly the remote start box itself? I’ve got the box disconnected for the time being.
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