I’ve been trying for months and months now to pin point the reason why I have this starting issue. It goes like this:
Problem: try and turnover the car… turns & turns until infinity.
Solution: Waiting a few minutes (or longer) with the key in position 2 (power) until a little whirring & click noise happens and the check engine light turns off. This has been my only method of driving the car thus far.
Factors: I notice when the car has been driven for awhile and is fully warmed up, i can turn the engine off, and start it right back up with minimal wait time in key position 2, sometimes it just fires right up and turns over.
Ultimate Problem: The car now will not turn over at all. I can wait in key position 2 infinitely and the check engine light does not disappear thus preventing me from firing up the car.
Things I’ve tried to fix this problem:
Replaced the distributor
New Plugs Wires
New Spark Plugs
Swapped out some sort of starter ECU dealy under the dash (someone did this for me… didn’t seem to have any noticeable effect)
Performed Regular Maintenance, and checked everything that I can generally think of barring any extensive electrical work.
What in the hell can be causing this? I really would like to get this damned car operational and it’s becoming increasingly worse. When I first picked up this cheap car it didn’t have this issue… but it’s gotten worse to the point now where the check engine light does not clear in key position 2 so that I can fire up in key position 3.
Ultimate Problem: The car now will not turn over at all. I can wait in key position 2 infinitely and the check engine light does not disappear thus preventing me from firing up the car. [/QUOTE]
By turn over, do you mean that the starter does not rotate the engine? Or do you mean that the starter functions, the engine rotates, but the car does not start and run on it’s own.
When it comes to starting problems the first thing you need to determine is if it’s a problem with your starter or with something that actually causes the engine to run or not.
If your starter is functioning properly you need to start by checking to see if the engine is getting fuel and spark. Depending on which (or both) you are not getting will narrow down the culprit and point you in a direction to start troubleshooting.
[QUOTE=deviantek;2144722]
[U][B]- Swapped out some sort of starter ECU dealy under the dash (someone did this for me… didn’t seem to have any noticeable effect)[/QUOTE]
You need to figure out what this unit is you’re talking about. Initially I was thinking your problem could be with the main fuel relay (MRF) although your symptoms aren’t quite typical. If you replaced the MFR, with a known good unit and it didn’t fix anything… then obviously that’s not your problem.
***The fact that your CEL is not coming on is helpful considering there is a specific troubleshooting procedure for that… check pg 11-49 in your Helms manual and go from there. This is where I would start troubleshooting your problem. It could be something as simple as a blown fuse or loose ground.
[QUOTE=Colin;2144735]By turn over, do you mean that the starter does not rotate the engine? Or do you mean that the starter functions, the engine rotates, but the car does not start and run on it’s own.
[/QUOTE]
When I say turnover, I’m referring to the noise of the engine turning and turning… rev rev rev rev rev rev (or whatever sound you want to substitute).
With that said, would that eliminate the possibility of it being the starter? Could the ECU be waiting for fuel pressure before letting the engine start fully? aka bad fuel pump? If it’s a grounding issue, where are the grounding points I should be looking for?
I’m not sure what you mean by this. The CEL is on and does not disappear… which is the problem and is what’s preventing the engine from firing up. Helms manual? Pretty sure I don’t have that.
Yes, if the engine is turning, then the starter is working. That’s the purpose of the starter, it rotates the engine mechanically before the engine can sustain it’s own rotation thru combustion.
There are multiple ways the engine may not be getting fuel, the fuel pump is just one of them. The “whirring” noise you mentioned is most likely the fuel pump. When you turn the key to the ON position this sends power to the MFR. The main fuel relay then sends power to the fuel pump and some other items. The fuel pump will go on for two seconds, pressurize the system, then shut off. It turns off at the same time your CEL goes off.
I misread your post regarding the CEL, sorry. I thought you said it wasn’t coming on.
Helms manual is the factory service manual. You shouldn’t even be attempting to troubleshoot issues on an Integra w/o one. IMO a service manual it’s the very first thing you should buy after purchasing a used/older car.
Since the CEL is not going off, the next step is to jump your service check connector and see what codes the ECU is throwing.
check this out man… u waisted your time by getting a new distributor and wires… you should of checked for spark… if you have spark then you can X out the ignition system and not spend your money on any of that… but dont feel too bad… never hurts to get mew wires and plugs… =) check this site out… it will better help you understand what can be the problem and solution…
Ok, so based off of that help-guide, I’m able to determine that it is either the ignition switch, main relay, or ECU.
Just so happens that the main relay was something my friend suspected and swapped out for another… so I can almost rule that out. I popped it open and it looked good. No cracks, etc. Had a bit of brown tint to it but I suppose that’s the gel/clear coat shit they put on top of the soldering.
Ignition Switch? What are the symptoms to know where I can rule this out or not? Are there symptoms?
ECU. I’m guessing this is under the driver side as well? The metal box with an round LED light on the side of it? Any diagrams or pictures of how to remove this and check for damage?
Also, just to clarify. When you turn the key to position II, is the 1st “click” you’re waiting for immediately, or the one that turns the CEL off? it sounds like a manual click when turning the key into position 2… but I always assumed the 1st click was when the CEL light turned off.
That link he posted is just about troubleshooting for the ignition system. You haven’t narrowed it down to that, have you? Have you tested every other component? Have you tested fuel…etc. I’ll just re-state what I said before…
Email me.
Follow the troubleshooting procedures in the Helms manual. It’s the most comprehensive and foolproof method available.
Can you check your CEL code in key position 2? I was under the impression to get a proper reading the car needed to be fired up and running.
Well, I’ve weeded out the battery and the MFR so far. My best assumption now would be either the ECU or fuel pump.
Out of curiosity, is their a guide to replacing the fuel pump on this site? Was unable to find one. I assume the pump is something I should change at this stage in the cars life anyways.
As for the helms manual, haven’t found a free download link nor do I have the hard copy manual. Trying my best to keep all costs down on trouble shooting this as much as possible.
I doubt it’s the fuel pump. When you get that second click and the check engine light goes off, that’s the relay working and allowing the fuel pump to come on. I’m having the same exact issue that you are right now and I’ve replaced my main relay and it didn’t help either. I’m thinking it’s probably the ecu. You can get a used one for cheap and they are simple to replace. I would do that before I would change the fuel pump.
I guess from your post above it is getting spark?? When you turn the switch is the motor turning over attempting to start? When my switch went out I would turn it on to start position and nothing. I tried wiggling the key etc. This wiggling worked for a while but it finally wore out. I haven’t seen where you have checked for any ecu codes. Check under teg tips for how to do this. Turn the key to the on position and see if you are getting any blinking from the ecu. Then report your findings.
Yeah Same issue as you. I tried the 3rd MFR and basically ruled that out. It has to be the ECU or a bad ground… wish I could find a cheap ECU locally but no luck so far.
Im not 100% on this but I think there is a ground wire for the fuel injection system on the thermostat housing but I don’t know how it is tied in with the MFR. Take a look at it also… Just a guess
[QUOTE=deviantek;2145514]
As for the helms manual, haven’t found a free download link nor do I have the hard copy manual. Trying my best to keep all costs down on trouble shooting this as much as possible. [/QUOTE]
You clearly aren’t understanding my subtly… Your choice though, you can email me or not. I keep trying to help and you keep preventing me from doing so. I guess I’ll stop checking in on this thread since you don’t seem to want my help.
I got a picture of the thermostat housing off of my old engine but it’s out of the car in the pic. It’s located on the passenger side of the vehicle on the back of the head. Kinda under the distributor. The arrow points to where that screw is for the ground wire.
[QUOTE=deviantek;2144722]Any knowledgeable acura guys out there:
(93 Acura Integra GS Coupe)
I’ve been trying for months and months now to pin point the reason why I have this starting issue. It goes like this:
Problem: try and turnover the car… turns & turns until infinity.
Solution: Waiting a few minutes (or longer) with the key in position 2 (power) until a little whirring & click noise happens and the check engine light turns off. This has been my only method of driving the car thus far.
Factors: I notice when the car has been driven for awhile and is fully warmed up, i can turn the engine off, and start it right back up with minimal wait time in key position 2, sometimes it just fires right up and turns over.
Ultimate Problem: The car now will not turn over at all. I can wait in key position 2 infinitely and the check engine light does not disappear thus preventing me from firing up the car.
Things I’ve tried to fix this problem:
Replaced the distributor
New Plugs Wires
New Spark Plugs
Swapped out some sort of starter ECU dealy under the dash (someone did this for me… didn’t seem to have any noticeable effect)
Performed Regular Maintenance, and checked everything that I can generally think of barring any extensive electrical work.
What in the hell can be causing this? I really would like to get this damned car operational and it’s becoming increasingly worse. When I first picked up this cheap car it didn’t have this issue… but it’s gotten worse to the point now where the check engine light does not clear in key position 2 so that I can fire up in key position 3.
Help![/QUOTE]
I GUARANTEE it’s your MFR (Main Fuel Relay) replace it because it’s simple enough to replace…I had the same issue and now I never have this problem!
He says he already swapped out the MFR, though I agree, he should take one out of a known working car and try it again. I had similar issues and it solved mine.
to the OP:
Just email Colin, he’s trying to get a copy of the Helms manual to you.
If your MFR is not the problem then it may be your ignition switch in which case your going to need the Helms to properly troubleshoot this problem.
Listen to Colin, he knows what he is talking about.
