well i want to see what kinda ideas you guys have on parts for a b18a. here are the hopes and dreams:
9k rpm- every day
1.0 or 1.5 bar- every day
durability
power at high rpm (none of this tapering off of power or boost)
here are some ideas so far:
a roller rocker kit w/ cams
balanced crower crank
je 9.2:1 turbo pistons
race crank/rod bearings
t3/t4 or t4/t62 or just a t4
cheap 35mm external gate (i dont care if boost creaps and big gates are for wasting more usable exhaust gasses)
these are just ideas if u got better suggetions please post them and i know i am missing a lot of stuff i just didnt wanna type all the crap i got in mind for it.
fuel management (injectors, stand alone)
head work (p&p, valves, springs, retainers, cams)
block Work (balance&blueprint crank, forged rods, pistons, block guard for extra protection etc…)
Clutch
colder plugs
good exhaust mani, none of this ssautocrap crap.
3 inch down pipe or more w/ 3 inch exhaust piping
straight pipe or clear the catalytic conv.
and a big turbo sticker to make the turbo spool quicker and give u 100 hp to the wheels y0!
no need for 9k rpms. 8.5k is all you’ll need. no need for the crower crank. no need for the roller rockers.
get a sleeved LS block & b16a head, crower/pauter rods, CP pistons, your choice of valvesprings and retainers, ITR cams, etc. buy a Full race kit with the t3t67 h.o. 550-650whp without spray, 650-800+whp with spray.
anyone else agree with this? this is actually exactly the kind of buildup i had in mind, except i just read an article in HCi that talks about b-series motors not needing sleeves, braces, or even studs, as long as you tune it right. in that same article HCi successfully boosted a b16 block at 23psi with just rods and pistons and thats it. the end result was 507whp :dance: and i dont remember how much torque but it was above 500ft/lbs. really good article, actually. if anyone’s interested in reading it, i might take the time to type it up.
Oh come on…you basically described a b16 in your needs so fuck that b18 idea out of your head completely.
It comes down to this, do you have money to just throw away? Because you can build an ls to rev high like a b16 but it takes a lot more extra money. You’re looking at doing major headwork just to get equal or just a bit better than a stock b16s flow. If you decide to get nasty with even a mildly built b16t with for example t3/t4 57-60 trim, gsr cams, victor x mani, etc ur gonna get walked all day…
If you do decide to go either of these routes ur still gonna have to build the bottom and head to maintain high rpm power, the ls though will take more money to meet or surpass the b16s capabilities.
You didn’t say if you were jus gonna be streeting/tracking this car or whatnot but as far as driveability it will be easier to launch the b16 because of the lack of torque on the low end. Some people gripe about this…now think about it, after 1st gear ur not gonna see sub-5,000 rpm IF you take it 9,000 and have the matching tranny so ur gonna rip. Also it really is so satisfying to have a torquey car jump off the line on you just to spank him after 3rd.
And I guess I’ll start this war again too… If all things are equal in 2 builds, tuning, driving, parts, etc… The r/s ratio of the b16 is better for high revs and will last longer.
i was looking for a wide power band, lagg is a welcome occurrance i can launch better with low power and the higher the rpm the less lagg there is. a t4 is perfect, the roller rockr thing was just an idea. the kit htat crower has is like a normal kit and it runs for $850, a b16 swap runs for at least $1200. the block is pretty strong my cuz had a stock b16 head on a stock ls block and would run 9.5k all the time, i can deal with 8.5k or even 8k besides i dont plan to run over 400hp anyway. there will be no juice and no vtec; look at the vtec killer cam from TODA. this car will be on the street for most of the year but twice a year i will try to beat some porsches in an autocross. all the feed back was great, keep it comming.
I just took a look at that cam, it sounds insane. Can that cam be used in b18a1 heads? or does it have to be used in a vtec head with vtec disabled? kinda confused on how exactly it works, but it seems crazy.
people keep mentioning head work and ur leaving out the important stuff such as the machine work and such. the head will need a valve job with new valvs so u might as well have new vale guides pressed in and all new seals.
as for the bottom end, id run all new gaskets, wiseco pistons, eagle rods, stock crank- no need for a new one(stock ones have been proven over 700whp, so no worries) at the most have it micropolished and lightened if u must. i would also use a type r oil pump, no point in buildign the head if ur pump cant keep up with higher rpms.
i woulsnt worry about new cams, just have the stockers reground and ur gravy.
as for the turbo kit itself, full-race is nice, but who in there right minds spends that much for a kit. find someone that makes a nice manifold and go from there as far as that goes. some sort of t3/t4, maybe a 57 trim, or an sc61 would be very nice. as for the wastegate, ssautocraps have been proven to work fine, i would prefer tial, but sscrapolla if in a money pinch. some big ole injectors, 75o or more, wideband and CROMEPro would be good for ur fuel management. tear it up bro.
there are tons of hidden costs when building an engine, dont foget that, a simple tube of hondabond is about 30 bux
I hope by broad powerband you mean a high broad powerband. This is if you are talking about with a b16… Anyway I about your cuz and his motor…he must of had incredible tuning or just been one hell of a lucky bitch cause completely stock block lsvtec is a bad idea. I’m telling you just stick with the b16 if you want anything dealing with a top end powerband. And this is a very bad example but just to help you imagine, as far as the b-series goes the r/s of the b16 reminds me of a rotory the most. Yes…I kno these motors are not similar mechanically but the reason I say this is because for high rpm power the b16 r/s is the best. Go beg spoon for one of their broken b16 racing motors, they hold down 12,000…
And for either of these motors b16 or b18 you better get some ARP bolts and studs for reving high as well as some aftermarket valvetrain.
P.s. Yes…I am trying to establish myself as a b16/ FI guru.
b16’s are nice, but if i wanted something without torque, id go with a d16z6/y8. the b18s have the torque. and dont say that isnt true. boosted there nice, but still, who wants a powerband that works well only near high rpms? i would personally rather have full boost by 4k then 5k. if ur gonna build, go with a b18. if u wanna dick around, get a b16
First do you have any personal experience riding in a honda with a b16 with short geared tranny?
Second, what are you considering high rpm’s? A b16 has a higher powerband than a ls, true. Now as far as you saying “who wants a powerband that works well only near high rpms?” what are you talking about? I sat there reading this over and over again. The powerband of a b16 begins around 5k that’s considered midrange last time I checked. So the b16 has a mid to high powerband versus the LS which has a low to mid powerband.
Now, the thread starter said they were looking for power to not fall off at a higher rpm. Why? So he/she can keep going and not have their acceleration hit a wall.
Lets take the turbo out of the equation and break this down to motors since this is what we are debating. Everyone knows that you take 2 g2s, everything equal from car to drivers skill. One has a LS, one has a b16. The b16 will take over after 3rd gear. WHY? Lets compare the motors to their tranny’s. The LS motor without tranny has the torque. Now put on the tranny, it hinders the LS’s torque AFTER I’d say about 3rd gear stock. Now the B16, the motor alone has the higher powerband. Now with the tranny you add short gears to keep you accelerating.
Now as far as the tranny’s alone. The ls tranny can go to a higher topspeed because of the longer gears, BUT with the ls motor attached, the motor doesn’t have enough power to keep accelerating quickly past 4th. Think about when your teg was stock. I remember well when I’d get to 4th I could feel the motor straining, like it was saying “that’s it”.
Now in a car with a b16 and matching tranny I was like wow! The 3rd and 4th gears felt like 2nd on the LS. So it seems like its coming down to matching the gearing of the tranny to your power…kind of.
Now lets add the turbo back into the picture. I’d first like to say you can change your powerband by the turbo you choose, I know that. More or less though, all a turbo does is accentuate a powerband. If you have a LS, add a turbo, then you will rip non-turbo B16’s all day long. BUT if that B16 adds a turbo as well then you are right back where you started, game over. This is heavily dependent on turbos chosen though.
Just to cover my ass, I know someone is gonna jump in here and say “just add a b16 tranny on the LS.” On paper you would be correct. What really happens now is that you have TOO MUCH POWER for the tranny! You will spin the tires atleast till 2nd gear.
In closing I’d like to say its all about BALANCE! Thread starter as well as others, you can have a nice torquey LS-turbo if you want but once that torque falls off its over for you! Also I say this all the time…after 1st gear on a 1.8 or 1.6 you aren’t gonna see anything under 4k!
You need the power where it matters.
I used to run track so I’ll end it with this lil analogy… You can sprint out from the start if you want, but that cross country runner will always get you in the end when you run out of breath.
