*Rear* Manual Seatbelt Swap

DISCLAIMER: Modifying your safety devices in any way can be dangerous and fatal. If you don’t feel safe or confident doing so, simply don’t do it.

The other day I decided enough was enough after hitting my head for the - well I guess I’ve hit my head on it so many times that I can’t remember - on the auto seatbelt slider clip. The catch was that I didn’t feel like paying $100+ for the actual swap from Canada. Since I was getting rid of my rear seats and stripping the interior for another project, I discovered that there were two perfectly working manual seat belts in the back of my car.

The Tools and Materials:
-Drill and Drill bits
-Socket wrench with 10, 12, 14, and 17mm sockets
-Philips screwdriver
-Metal filer
-Vise Grip
-2x M10 125 40mm bolts (Schucks - $3 dollars)
-4x 5/16 Flat washers or some similar size ($0)
-2x rectangular 1/8" steel mounting brackets (~$20)
-Rag towel
-Sharpie
-Paper
-Scissors

Total Cost: 23 dollar plus gas

Pre Step 1 remove interior panels to have access and unbolt and remove any components related to automatic seatbelts. I’m not going to cover disassembly, its just bolts.

Step 1:
Unbolt and remove the front seats from the car.

Step 2:
Turn driver’s seat on its side and unbolt the lap belt retractor and and save your nuts. Find the rear driver side buckle and fit it onto the first bolt closest to the back of the seat. It fits perfectly onto the bolt; however, there is also a tab protruding into the seat bracket which needs to be taken care of. Instead of cutting it off - keep the plate affixed to the bolt on the seat and slide the the tab fits against a groove in the seats bracket. Mark this spot and drill a hole large enough for the tab to fit in. Bolt the buckle housing in using one of the two retained nuts. Sorry, no pictures for this part.

Step 3:
Same as step 2 for the front passenger seat. Make sure you did not use the seatbelt buckle for the middle seat as it does not fit the L or R rear seatbelts. It will say “center” on it.

You are now looking at this-

What you’ll eventually be wanting to see is this-

Step 4:
To line up the screw hole and tab of the manual belt retractor to the existing screw hole and slot where the auto retractor was you must file do some metal filing.
First place a towel down to catch all those filings,
then take your file and go at it until this:

looks something like this:

Do this for both sides.

Now that the top mounting bolt threading and housing tab of the retractor lines up vertically for the most part, you’ll notice that there is only one other bolt mounting hole located at the bottom of the retractor bracket, but there is no place to bolt it in. Unfortunately the mounting designs for the auto retractor and the rear manual retractor are different. There is a solution though - fabricate or have someone else fabricate mounting plates.

Step 5:
Measure the distance between the existing bolt holes you want to use and the lower retractor mount. To keep it simple I figured rectangular brackets would be easiest. The dimension I came up with were 6 5/8 inches by 2 3/8 inches and I decided that 1/8 inch thick would be more then strong enough.

Step 6:
Because I didn’t have access to tools or materials to fabricate my own brackets this was the hardest part of the project. After more then a few phone calls I eventually was able to get someone to do this as a side-job for just $20. The fruit of my efforts:

Step 7:
Now I needed to drill holes in the exact places where it would mount between the car’s chassis and the new manual retractor. To accomplish this I cut out pieces of paper matching the dimensions of the mounting plates. Then I lined up the paper cutouts with the chassis mounting bolt threads, marked them with a sharpie, and transfered the marks onto the mounting plates. Now you’ll want to drill the holes. To do this I aligned each plate on a vice grip.

Step 8:
Now test fit the plate to the chassis:

I marked where the retractor’s housing mounting hole aligned to the plate directly to make sure everything lined up perfectly.
Now, back to the vise grips to drill the last hole.
It should then look like this:

Note: the bracket housing bolt requires a nut on the opposite side of the plate so you’ll have to find a different bolt/nut combination rather then using the bolt that was used originally with that bracket housing unless of course you have a nut the right size.

Repeat steps 7 and 8 for other side

Step 9:
Slice this off of both seatbelt assemblies if you haven’t already:

Step 10:
The retractor is done - now for the easy part.

To mount this:

You will need a different bolt due to the size of the original being too large.


If I remember correctly, the size of the bolt was M10 125 40mm, but be sure to double check that. I bought mine at Schucks for 3 dollars. Important! the bolts should be of high grade as you are installing a safety device.

Step 11:
You can put your interior panels back at this point if you want.
The last part will be mounting the seatbelt’s base to the chassis for lack of a better grasp of automotive terminology. I used two 5/16" washers on each side in order to get the right spacing. I’ll leave the description at that, you will see what I’m talking about should you choose to do this swap

And this can be mounted in either of the bolt thread where the automatic seatbelt base housing once resided. I used the thread closest to the rear.

You’re done!
The result should look something like this:

Note about bolts used - just re-use bolts from both the automatic seatbelt assembly and the rear manual seatbelt assembly. Whatever fits :slight_smile:

Post-Thoughts:
-Belts feel great and hug you into the seat. I feel safer with them.
-I did not re-use my pillar panels because they were had huge slots in them for the auto-belt sliders.
-One complaint: sometimes the seatbelts “stick” and you have to tug on them a bunch to get them to give, especially the passenger side. If I had to do this over, I would take apart the retractor housing if possible and grease it.

Nice write up?

I think that about all I can say positive about this one. I dunno If I can trust putting the rear belts up front. There is a reason why you don’t mess with the stock safety stuff. Good luck and hope it works.

If they are good enough for the back, then why wouldn’t they be good enough for the front. Obviously Honda/Acura wouldn’t use seat belts that are unsafe. With the Canadian seat belt swap you are required to weld in nuts into your frame, with this swap you are using all stock bolt threads and reusing bolts that were used for the seat belts in the first place. I see nothing unsafe about this and like I said before, it holds you in your seat far better then the lame auto belts it came with. You are welcome to your own opinion though of course.

They are CORRECTLY mounted in the back and are designed to a certain seating position as well as a distance that they can be pulled to. If you change the mount points you may alter how effective the belts are in an accident.

You’re right thats why if you live in the US your car came equipped with automatic seatbelts that have a lifetime warranty*

Yes you weld a bolt to the car usually in the same location that the canadian seat belts are mounted. I wouldnt reuse bolts that were torqued 13-17 years ago by robots , especially if my safety is at stake. Nor would I install belts by screwing them to a piece of metal that is anchored to another thin piece of metal not designed to support the weight of a passenger in an accident

Again going back to how the belt is designed to hold you and how much “give” there is supposed to be , the function of the belt due to altering its length mounting point. Hey I have a few thousand laying around care to let me take out a several million dollar life insurance policy on you?

They are CORRECTLY mounted in the back and are designed to a certain seating position as well as a distance that they can be pulled to. If you change the mount points you may alter how effective the belts are in an accident.

The positions where the belts are mounted emulates exactly the position of the original automatic belts, so unless the 2-point seat belt design is deemed unsafe, there is nothing wrong with the way they are positioned. The maximum distance each belt can be pulled to is not exceeded by anyone with the exception of the extremely large, so unless you weigh over 250-300 and have the girth to prove it these belts are just as effective. Besides, belts are effective at all lengths except for terminal length, don’t you think the safety engineers would have accounted for people of most sizes?

Yes you weld a bolt to the car usually in the same location that the canadian seat belts are mounted. I wouldnt reuse bolts that were torqued 13-17 years ago by robots , especially if my safety is at stake. Nor would I install belts by screwing them to a piece of metal that is anchored to another thin piece of metal not designed to support the weight of a passenger in an accident

You are right about one thing, the way I mounted the retractor housing is the weakest part of the assembly. But I’m not worried at all about the steel plate that’ll handle tons of stress from an impact, its the frame that its bolts too that may be somewhat questionable. However, the manual retractor housing is bolting to the same threads as the automatic retractor did. Not only that, but in crash the force from impact that the retractor sees is for the most part vertical distributing the stress onto the frame in a manner far less then likely to fail and tear, which is why quality of your bolts is important. Most of the directional force is applied to the seat belt assembly’s apex, which is held strong a thick, high-grade steel bolt and a deep thread into the b-pillar. The horizontal force of impact also shared by the buckle and end of belt length, whereas both ends are mounted safely and securely with high-grade steel bolts and deep threads in stock belt locations.

Again going back to how the belt is designed to hold you and how much “give” there is supposed to be , the function of the belt due to altering its length mounting point. Hey I have a few thousand laying around care to let me take out a several million dollar life insurance policy on you?

Safety devices are not rocket science, this swap deals with the same issue when modifying your car to install 4 and 5 point harnesses, is it safe under impact. But hey since you are offering, I will crash test this car to make a point if the deal is sweet enough.

Oh looks like someone googled seatbelts and did their homework.you seem to be able to predict exactly how the belts will react in any kind of accident. I’m sure honda safety engineers accounted for someone using the belts incorrectly. I mean shoot why do it right when you can gamble with your life daily?

DISCLAIMER TO ANYONE TRYING TO DO THIS:While seat belts arent rocket science, Using safety equipment incorrectly may kill or injure you or passenger. Mounting belts designed to work in the rear of the vehicle, in the front of the vehicle could compromise the effectiveness of the belts in an accident situation. Incorrectly mounted seatbelts may cause injury or death. Good luck trying to collect insurance or sue anyone in the event of injury or death if you KNOWINGLY modify seatbelts in the above manner. There are proper ways to install manual seatbelts (using canadian seatbelts that are THE PROPER length for the front seat and front seat driving positions) and 4 or 5 point harnesses (not to a c-pillar bar but to a harness bar or in a manner that will NOT compress the spine in an accident). There is NO conclusive data to prove that rear seat belts mounted (or modified to be mounted) in the front of the vehicle will protect you or your passenger(s) in a accident.

you seem to be able to predict exactly how the belts will react in any kind of accident. I’m sure honda safety engineers accounted for someone using the belts incorrectly. I mean shoot why do it right when you can gamble with your life daily?

I never claimed that, no one can predict every type of accident. But your logic suggests that the forces acting upon passengers in your rear seats will be different than the forces acting upon passengers in the front. Wrong. All riders will be thrown in the same direction based upon the circumstances of impact whether they are seated in front or in back or the car. So how would mounting rear seat belts up front make any difference in their effectiveness? It wouldn’t.

What about location of each part of the seat belt assembly is mounted to, if that is changed would this reduce effectiveness? No - In this swap I used the exact same positions to mount the manual assembly as the auto belt assembly used. Therefore you would have to claim that all 2-point seat belt designs not only in Integras, but many other cars are ineffective. Unless of course you are trying to dispute whether or not the function of the rear seat belt retractors in holding passengers in their seat in the event of impact is inherently flawed. If this was the case, all second generation Integras would have been recalled. Another point you bring up is “proper length.” I addressed this before, but a belt retractor will function properly at any length except for terminal length and even then it will catch you as it will have no more belt to give.

In my swap the function, the design, and the mounting locations are all sound. In fact, the new manual belts hug you much closer to the seat then the automatic seat belts ever did. In the event of impact this feature translates to less distance traveled before the retractor locks, catching and holding the rider in their seat, Hmm… Finally, spinal compression is not an issue in this swap, short of roof collapse, due to the apex of the 2-point design being above shoulder height (see pictures).

The one good point you do make is about insurance. Anyone who wishes to modify their stock safety equipment whether it be with a multi-point harness or a manual belt swap should be aware of possible conflicts with injury insurance. But don’t attack my write-up based upon unfounded opinions and voodoo logic that you can’t touch anything in your car that has to do with safety.

eh…

All that work you should have just done it the correct way…but whatever floats your boat

voodoo logic? Hardly. As for attacking your write I dont want anyone else to make the same mistake as you and think that rear seatblets should be mounted infront.There is no data about how effective the belts will be in an accident. You can say anything you want but there is no way to judge how good your “swap” will hold up until you hit something or you’re hit.Based on your above replies you are both an expert and authority on automotive safety harnesses and how a car will react with modified safety equpiment in an accident. Again I’m sure honda engineers accounted for all of this when they designed the seatbelt system.

SOL1D: Yeah probably, but I wanted to see if it was possible as I was taking out my rear interior anyway so I did it as more of a challenge then anything else.

I’ll just edit this write-up with a disclaimer. Hopefully that will make everyone happy.

couldnt you just take some front ones out of a dc and do the same thing?

very nice i am maybe going to try this…

Doodman: You could likely fit any kind of dependable seat belt, it just depends upon how much you are willing to fabricate and how aware you are of the variables and forces acting upon passenger and car under impact. Haha, lets not get into that though. For this I just used what I had available at the time.

Interesting write up, but I would be very worried about that recoil assembly ripping out, not to mention the b pillar mounting. If you are willing to risk your life then go ahead, but when I decided to go with manual belts, I made damn sure they were going to be safe. If you look at the canadian teg it has a lower bracket that is welded down the base near the rocker panel as a lower support. I took the same idea, but used a much thicker plate and welded the seams all the way down the side for a good 6-8 inches. I do know that is was safe as I just got in a 50 mph collision which my passenger and I walked away from untouched. Not to take anything away from you, but this is not something I would be recommending for others to try. Would you run tires on your car that had exposed belts in order to save money, then why try to cut corners when it comes to seatbelts?

cool swap id try it but i dont want my interior messed up looking is it posible to buy all neccesary parts from canada like panels n stuf so it looks stock … if so tell me how

retracting seatbelts

annoyingi hate those automatic seatbelts

The main difference is the pillar covers, which are black and have one hole coming out of the b pillar. If you bought the canadian covers they wouldnt fit, because he used the nut for the auto seatbelts on the side of the pillar, not the point of mounting on the manual seatbelts.

i would do this. i have a couple questions though. why not mount the seat belt here:

?

If you see where that hole is below your red circle. That is the stock location for the manual seatbelts. The problem is that they did not weld a mounting nut in the hole on tegs with auto seatbelts.