Remote Start issues

Here’s a tough problem for you alarm guru’s.

I am having an intermittent problem with my remote start. For some reason every once in a while it won’t start. However it does start with the key every time. The vehicle is a 90 Integra GS manual transmission and the alarm is a Clifford Solaris 5. Every once in a while when I hit the remote start button, the running lights will flash like they always do, the seat belt will move back, but for some reason the starter doesn’t try to engage. Now if this was a problem with the hood switch or something, then it wouldn’t go through that sequence above. So that can be ruled out. IIRC I used the alarms Ignition 3 output to bypass the clutch switch (through a relay). I was fortunate to be under the dash at one point when it was doing it, and got to meter a couple wires. I could hear the clutch bypass relay clicking, and metered the wire and it was good, so I know that isn’t the cause. I metered the key side of the starter wire coming from the alarm and was getting voltage. However when I switched to the starter side the vehicle decided to start that time. That’s as far as I have gotten on the metering portion. That’s the problem with intermittent problems.

I have been trying to see a patern somewhere in when it doesn’t work, and there doesn’t seem to be one. It seems to happen sometimes when the vehicle has been sitting for a while, or when the vehicle is warm. Any ideas?

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

Does your starter solenoid click?Try remote starting your car with the clutch engaged see what it does.I’ve tried a few manual by pass kits on honda’s with no luck or them working half the time, problem with the (-) wire on the injectors.Oh, btw ygm, you read my mind.The relays on our kits would click too but the car would never actually start.Do you have to do that pain in the ass sequence in order to remote start your car?

I don’t get any noise from the starter (no clicking from the solenoid or attempt to turn over), like it isn’t receiving a signal voltage.

How is the injector wires effecting anything? The reason I ask is that I had a problem a while ago with the resitor pack on the injectors. I would lose a cylindar every once in a while because of a loose wire inside the pack. I bought a used pack off a junked Integra and it has been working since. However my tach wire is connected to the coil (blue wire), and not the injector wire. Although that would have been a good place to get a signal now that I think about it due to it’s location.

This Solaris alarm is replacing my old Ace 7500 which I installed about 6 years ago and had an even more confusing problem with. Basically I sent the 7500 in for warranty and got the Solaris 5 as a replacement (after several issues with the replacement brains they sent). The 7500 was fool proof when it came to the remote start on the manual transmission. You would have to push a button sequence when you get out and then let the alarm turn off the car. I was told that the new Solaris would work with manual transmissions, but it sucks IMO. The only security I have is the E-brake, and my habit from 6 years of driving the car and always leaving it in neutral. Because of this, I’m thinking of installing a Peripheral Neutral Safety Switch which works similar to the 7500’s design.

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

The problem is in the remote start, from the testing you have done I bet the next time you get a chance to test the remote start output you will find no power, but just tap the brain or relay pack, and “poof” it will start cranking, to make it easy to check, wire a telltail light to the output, [starter] so you can see every time you start it, with key or remote the telltail will light, but the next time it doesn’t with the remote, and the telltail doesn’t light you will know its the remote start.
I have a few of the telltails in my shop, so when I get customers with intermitent problems, [that never show up in the shop] I just clip in some lights to what I think is the problem is and ask the customer to keep an eye on it/them and let me know what happens, cuts way down on troubleshooting time :hmm: 94

That is a brilliant idea. I will have to try that.

The one thing I hate though is that I spent SOOOOO much time with hiding the wires, and then when something happens I have to tear into my install. And it never goes back the way it was. :mad:

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

So why did the car start when he metered the starter side of the bremote start and not when he metered the key side? Your light idea is a good one.
I think the problem lies in the brain as well but with your idea we will find out.I also know the clutch bypass kits work when they want which has me wondering :think:

I actually made my own clutch bypass switch. I used the ignition 3 output on the alarm to trigger a relay to bypass the clutch switch.

And I wouldn’t be surprised that it was the brain. I have had nothing but problems with them. My Ace 7500 would do this wierd chirping thing when it got cold out (at night). I talked to a lot of alarm techs and it baffled them. One of my friends had the same alarm which died on him, and he just bought another alarm. So I took his brain and sent it in to warranty. They sent me back another brain. I plugged it in and it wouldn’t work. I couldn’t get it to program, respond to the valet switch, nothing. I unplugged it and plugged my old alarm in and it worked fine. So I sent that alarm brain back and they sent me a Solaris unit (they were out of Ace 7500’s, but it was identical). I plugged that one in and it powered up in alarm. I tried using the valet switch to disarm it, and it wouldn’t work. They sent me an alarm that had the plain view valet switch coded with something becides the factory setting. So I sent that one in and they sent me another Solaris unit. Again this one did not work. Well by now the ignition relay started to go out on my old alarm. All of a sudden my car would die while I was driving, and then start right back up. Or if I was at a stop, it would just die and I would have to start it with the key. This caused me to bypass the ignition kill, which eliminated the remote start. So I called Clifford up and explained my situation, and asked for a brand new alarm instead of the junk they kept sending me. That’s how I got the Solaris 5. So now it seems like I got a bad brain again…

Now I head up the warranty department at Adire Audio, a small speaker manufacturer. So I know that when the same person keeps having problems with equipment, that it probably is the install instead of the components. Because of this, I did a complete re-install of the alarm system in between one of those older model alarm swaps. And I did another complete re-install when I put in the Solaris 5. I should also mention that having worked as an installer for several years I have installed quite a few remote start/alarm systems in vehicles and have NEVER had one come back with an install problem. So I think I have eliminated the possibility of the issue being the install.

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

Never once questioned your install. The peripheral bypasses use a (-) signal from any injectors.And the injectors polarity would change so fast that the bypass wuoldn’t read it.That’s what i meant about the injectors, we put that same bypass on an eclipse and it worked fine.

Are you using the ignition output to trigger an external relay to feed a ground to the clutch??? If so I would do something else. I would use the relay to trigger to connect the two wires on the clutch switch instead of introducing a separate ground into it.

Try this… Try to get the system to not start again… When you know it’s not going to start puch on the clutch and the see if it will make a difference. I think you problem is most likely in the clutch relay that you wired up or of course it can definately be the alarm… But try the clutch first.

Same kind of problem that Steven is having… if you didn’t do it, join the two clutch wires instead of introducing a ground into the system.

Good idea, i’ll have to try that, thanx never thuoght of that but now that i think of it, makes sense.But what’s the diff?Your still ending up with a ground?

Yes you are, I have installed a lot of remote starts and just adding a ground to the “clutch over ride” has never been a problem, I mean on a Honda all you are doing is grounding one side of a relay, I normaly do it with the ground out when running, the same one I use to trip a bypass mod., and if I need the bypass mod., I add a diode to isolate the mod., [so its not triggered when you step on the clutch ped. DUH!] :hmm: 94

i know why you isolate it but your method wuold allow it to start even if the car is in gear.Your just tricking the car. Your not worried that the car may movewhen attempting to remote start the car?I know you may never leave it in gear, but a brother or sister or a freind you let take your car to the store?I’m not doggin’ i’m just curious.

You’re absolutely right FCM, BUT after falling for that same thinking I got myself into a couple of tight spots when this method wouldn’t work for me… I can’t say the cars since its been a while… What I always do know is simply bridge the wires and it just works man. Maybe, just maybe in some cars you can use a 12volt ground to trip the clutch, maybe something else is happening on that wire that I don’t know about… I’m just telling ONE way that works absolutely everytime.

Here’s another thought what IF the 500ma ground out is not enough to trigger the clutch switch… What if for some reason you need more current? The relay is the safer way… Takes a couple of more minutes to wire up, but it’s still a shorter time than replacing the alarm due to a blown output.

Ah, understood. Actually right now I’m using only the Clifford alarm. I just mentioned that I was thinking of adding the Peripheral unit to provide a safer install. However it is good to know to watch out for that problem.

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

I’m using the ignition 3 output from the alarm to trigger a relay and provide a ground to the switch.

Remember that I was able to test this relay switch when it wasn’t starting and it was working just fine.

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

I still don’t like the idea of always bypassing that switch though. Especially when there are ways to achieve your goals without bypassing it. Although I may do it for a short time to see if that completely eliminates my problem. However I really don’t think it is the clutch bypass switch that is the issue as it metered fine when the R/S wasn’t working.

Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

I agree with you, I have three chidren who play in and around my drive way not to mention neighbors kids and would hate to imagine what could happen if one of them got hurt cause i just cut a corner.Don’t even want to think about it.Just my $.02,thats all.Some of you may never have to worry about that, but i do.And my job at the audio store i work at has to be done safely and correctly, just a habit i bring home with me.

Steven I didn’t mean by-pass it full time… All I meant use the relay to bridge or make the two wires come into contact INSTEAD of feeding the circuit a ground.

And yes you did hear the relay clicking but you did not mention that you actually know what it’s supplying to the system…

Easiest way is to press on the clutch yourself and then remote start.

I’m almost 100% sure that’s your problem… It does seem difficult to diagnose especially over the net like this, but from what you’ve said and from my previous experiences I’m pretty sure it’s that relay and the way it’s configured.

Of course I could be wrong too. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=catalin]
Easiest way is to press on the clutch yourself and then remote start.
Didn’t I already say that?Any ways Steven, will it start when you are holding the clutch?