[QUOTE=smithsteg;1980440]hey bud,
the cock suckers on this fourm hate me way more than the one on that other fourm were on[/QUOTE]
:lol: You don’t seem like a bad guy at all to me. And you need some new pics of your car. After checking out your thread on shift, I’ve decided I like it a lot… just too many bars on the inside for me!!
Wow, those have gotten cheaper. I saw a K20Z1 with transmission for sale for $3000 earlier and was thinking those are cheaper than B18Cs were when I owned an Integra.
Certainly, I picked up a TSX long block and an 05 K20Z1 tranny for less than 2k.
keep up the good work lance. Any idea of when it will be done? and are you keeping it N/A or boost?
Bisimoto wrote:
The F22A is amazing, and we beat tons of pro K-series guys, with a fraction of the budget they have. For goodness sakes, I still run a stock windshield (and they hate it).
The guesswork is now gone with the F22A. We have all you need to exceed your goals. A simple recipe:
86mm bore
12:1 Bisimoto shelf pistons
Custom Bisimoto level 2.9 camshaft
Ported head (will help a bunch)
Bisimoto pro springs
H23 intake manifold
Oversized throttle body
Bisimoto F22a header (or at least something decent)
2.5" or larger exhaust system
Good engine management (AEM or Hondata)
Voila!!
If you don’t know who Bisi is hit up google and read.
I read about him in Honda Tuning. Absolute genious in that man.
B17 = LEGENDARY GREATNESS :rockon: thats where I stand
Really? What makes the B17A1 “legendary.”
It was just a bastard child of the B16A made for North America.
[QUOTE=icemanGSR;1980823]Bisimoto wrote:
The F22A is amazing, and we beat tons of pro K-series guys, with a fraction of the budget they have. For goodness sakes, I still run a stock windshield (and they hate it).
The guesswork is now gone with the F22A. We have all you need to exceed your goals. A simple recipe:
86mm bore
12:1 Bisimoto shelf pistons
Custom Bisimoto level 2.9 camshaft
Ported head (will help a bunch)
Bisimoto pro springs
H23 intake manifold
Oversized throttle body
Bisimoto F22a header (or at least something decent)
2.5" or larger exhaust system
Good engine management (AEM or Hondata)
Voila!!
If you don’t know who Bisi is hit up google and read.[/QUOTE]
Don’t get me wrong, the guys at Bisimoto do phenomenal work with black sheep engines, but that setup seems insanely expensive and impractical for DD. You can DD a mildly built K20, get great gas mileage and dominate most people on the road.
you have to buy the k first and that automatically makes it the more expensive option. the cost factor automatically makes the k lose. you can get an f very cheap compared to a k, and those parts are not that bad. that mildly built k would still cost more to do than the f.
btw he even has D series builds that can take k series powered cars down.
the k isnt’ all it’s cracke dup to be. yeah its a great engine but it has its downfalls too. the f series head flows just as well. the rods are a complete joke, d series rods are beefy by comparison, the 6 speed every jacks off over, is crap, first gear is completely useless, the water pumps cavitate at higher rpms.
[QUOTE=icemanGSR;1984907]you have to buy the k first and that automatically makes it the more expensive option. the cost factor automatically makes the k lose. you can get an f very cheap compared to a k, and those parts are not that bad. that mildly built k would still cost more to do than the f.
btw he even has D series builds that can take k series powered cars down.
the k isnt’ all it’s cracke dup to be. yeah its a great engine but it has its downfalls too. the f series head flows just as well. the rods are a complete joke, d series rods are beefy by comparison, the 6 speed every jacks off over, is crap, first gear is completely useless, the water pumps cavitate at higher rpms.[/QUOTE]
So what are you suggesting? That you swap an f series or D seires into a DA? Talk about customization.
I agree with you that swapping a k20/24 into a DA is impractical, but why the hatred? Pound per Pound a stock k20a2 vs the pinnacle of B series tech (b18c), the k series will be at par or better.
AND every weakness that you mentioned in the K series, can be aided, upgraded, making the engine more powerful and reliable.
I think it is just a matter of time before we see the real benefits of the K series. The B/D series engines have had 20 years of development. You have to keep that in mind.
[QUOTE=wakaranai;1985038]So what are you suggesting? That you swap an f series or D seires into a DA? Talk about customization.
I agree with you that swapping a k20/24 into a DA is impractical, but why the hatred? Pound per Pound a stock k20a2 vs the pinnacle of B series tech (b18c), the k series will be at par or better.
AND every weakness that you mentioned in the K series, can be aided, upgraded, making the engine more powerful and reliable.
I think it is just a matter of time before we see the real benefits of the K series. The B/D series engines have had 20 years of development. You have to keep that in mind.[/QUOTE]
that is true however swapping a d or f into a da is WAY easier than a k. the hatred comes from the fact that everyone gushes over this series engine simply b/c it has a few technological advantages and makes good power NA. you can do the same thing cheaper with older technology.
and no pound for pound it isn’t necessarily better/faster. honda tuning did an article a while back comparing 2 identical civics, with identical horsepower/weight/etc, one with a k and one with a b. the b powered one was quicker in almost every respect, albiet not by much, but it proves that the k isnt’ all that and a bag of chips and dip.
by the time you upgrade and aid it’s weak points, you will have spent far more $$$ which goes to my original argument. i constantly hear abotu how the K isn’t that expensive, but if you seriously price it out, it is. period. you can buy a used f or b or d, in whatever shape, and spend a fraction of the cost of the k engine itself. i’m sure you can get lucky and find one cheaper, but once the swap is done, you still spend more. depending on the chassis used will bring in factors like the trans tunnel, wiring routing, mounts, cross members, general engine space, exhaust routing, axles, hybrid friendly parts, etc etc etc. those situation do arise in other swaps (d,h,f) but it is far less of a hassle. the hondas from 92-01 were really close to each other. enignes were mounted the same way, so less modification is required.
basically what i’m saying is for all it’s hype the cost to benefit ratio sucks.
i love honda, i love where they were going with the K, but i believe it was executed too fast and too poorly by honda standards. it’s just my opinion.
i’m sorry but if bisimoto can use a NON vtec f series and make enough power to take the all might k swap down, that means a lot. and he did this before he got big.
i’m a huge B series fan. I always have been and I always will be. They are simple, can be quick, and nothing sounds like em.
I think that is what it boils down to. You sound like the guys that have never given up building small block Chevy’s.
I like both B and K series a lot. And trust me, I absolutely love the sound of a B series @ 8k (I hear it everyday 
). I just have a lot of trouble discrediting the K. Also, you are talking about striclty drag racing–which is something I’m hardly into. Put an F22 on a road course for an hour and see what happens.
And more than anything, it looks like your argument is focused on the cost factor. I guess only time will tell. We’ll see how it goes.
[QUOTE=kNOwLedGe420;1984208]Really? What makes the B17A1 “legendary.”
It was just a bastard child of the B16A made for North America.[/QUOTE]
:werd:
what do you think is gonna happen to an F series after an hour that wouldnt’/ or couldn’t happen to any other engine? the k would fail first if not attended to. oil pump that spins at 1.6:1 ratio as oppose to most of the others that spin 1:1. that means at 8k, the kseries pump spins at over 12,000 rpms. at a lengthy period of time, that will become a problem.
when the costs drop, i will definately look into K series more closely. hell i may not have a choice as b seris parts may not be easy to find anymore.
as to the small block chevy comparison . . . . when something is tried and true, why change. lol. b series builds work, and are still competitive.
when you can get a K24a2 with transmission for $2200, that’s pretty cheap.
And the K engine has no more problems than the B in any reasonable street scenario. The 6-speed, OTOH, is great when it works properly, but has definite design issues.
For racing, any engine can make lots of power and be reliable depending on how much money you want to spend.
[QUOTE=strikeback03;1985974]when you can get a K24a2 with transmission for $2200, that’s pretty cheap.
And the K engine has no more problems than the B in any reasonable street scenario. The 6-speed, OTOH, is great when it works properly, but has definite design issues.
For racing, any engine can make lots of power and be reliable depending on how much money you want to spend.[/QUOTE]
$2200 is not cheap. what do you consider a reasonable street scenario?
[QUOTE=icemanGSR;1985725]what do you think is gonna happen to an F series after an hour that wouldnt’/ or couldn’t happen to any other engine? the k would fail first if not attended to. oil pump that spins at 1.6:1 ratio as oppose to most of the others that spin 1:1. that means at 8k, the kseries pump spins at over 12,000 rpms. at a lengthy period of time, that will become a problem.
when the costs drop, i will definately look into K series more closely. hell i may not have a choice as b seris parts may not be easy to find anymore.
as to the small block chevy comparison . . . . when something is tried and true, why change. lol. b series builds work, and are still competitive.[/QUOTE]
TSX’s and RSX’s are doing very well in the Grand Am/SCCA Speed Touring car series and have many class wins in multiple racing series’ around the world. I am aware that the engine is only one of the many elements that makes a good race car, but it is very safe to say that the K series is a fantastic race/road course engine.
And yup, to your small block Chevy response. Corvettes are still kicking ass with their primitive ass designed engine and suspension!
I beg to differ. Around here, a used GSR swap goes for 1500-2000. A used ITR swap goes for 2500-4000. 2200 for a K swap is not bad.
[QUOTE=kNOwLedGe420;1984208]Really? What makes the B17A1 “legendary.”
It was just a bastard child of the B16A made for North America.[/QUOTE]
B16 POWA! :rockon:
yes boi