Hey yall I am planning to turbo my 92 DA towards the end of the summer, still not completely sure about all the parts but I do have some in mind. My motor will stay non-vtec for this build. My goal is 350+ whp, I plan to rev to 8k rpm. My budget I’m thinking will be around $4000… I have done lots of research, I understand the concepts just don’t have much experience yet. This will be my first build, I may be missing parts from my list. Please let me know what you think about it, what should be added/subtracted, and what else I need to consider and/or learn about. It is an incomplete list waiting to be completed.
The above parts are the ones I am more or less sure about. I realize that these parts together already use up about half of my budget if I buy them all new. On to the turbo kit, this is where I am unsure. I do not believe I could make 350 whp with a 14b or a T25. Could I make that power with a T3T4 ? What trim and A/R should I go for? I am looking for early spool and good power all the way to redline. I have already deleted AC and PS so they will not be in the way of anything. Give me some input so I can move forward with my build. Thanks.
^Thanks for that although I have already read it lol… So you think I should just focus on turbo parts and not build the head because its non-vtec? What about the block? Should I even bother with pistons and rods?
NO. You are doing good as far as going into the block for the build. Worry about the head another time. Pistons, rods, rod bearings and main bearings as well as the ARP hardware will make a healthy bottom end and insure a safe motor for high pounds of boost.
As far as turbos, I use a T3/T4 at 16psi and 328 hp/240tq @8.2rpms with a built bottom end and no head work. All this has been acheived with just an LS, no VTEC, no head work. Though I had plans on head work later or going LS/VTEC, I’m very happy with my set-up as it is. Just remember, everyones set-up will not grant you the same results as the next man. I personally believe its about the tuning that is important.
You will need a 3 bar map sensor for boosting past 11 psi and you have not mentioned about a tuning program. But what is most important is who tunes your set-up. Dont slack up on this end and dont be desperate and go cheap. Find a reputable tuner to fine tune your investment.
Yup, build the block don’t worry about the head. But as said, it is all up to the tune. For the block, I’d add CP pistons, Eagle rods and ARP rod bolts. Also throw ARP head bolts in your LS head and throw the turbo kit on it and you’ll be more than happy.
Cool cool thanks for the replies guys. It will be tuned by a reputable tuner, he has tuned a few of my friends cars with very good results. BigJimSlay you rev your stock ls head to 8200rpms?? I will be using a wideband just don’t know which one yet. Also I forgot to mention I will be going with the hondata s300 for tuning. IntegraC why do you say CP Pistons? Are they better than Wiseco? I was thinking about going with stock compression but the highest octane I can get here is 91 unless I go with E85. What do you guys think about that? And one more thing: how big of an intercooler do I need to support my goal?
S300 is what I’m tuned on, it’s good stuff. Use the AEM wideband, works great.
CP pistons are better than Wiseco. You can use Wiseco, but I heard that their wrist pins are real weak and break quite often, especially as you get up there in HP. I know 2 people that started with Wiseco pistons and ended up switching to CP or JE pistons afterwords.
CP pistons are a tad pricy, so instead of Wiseco I’d look at JE or Arias pistons. I did however find a place that sells em for $510+tax+free shipping so not as bad as what other vendors are selling them for ($600+).
If you go with E85 you will need some big ass injectors, especially for going turbo. Something in the 1800cc range for your HP goal. I say upgrade your pistons and rods and you’ll be at 350whp easy on 91 octane.
As for the intercooler, just check online most places you buy them from tell you the max HP they’re good for. If you want to upgrade your setup for more power later on I’d get something that would be good for such an upgrade.
“BigJimSlay you rev your stock ls head to 8200rpms??”
I have JG Engine Dynamics valve springs and Skunk2 retainers to support that rev. They were once paired with Crower stage 2 cams, but those cams got sold soon after I went turbo. DSM 550cc injectors and Hondata S100 controls the a/f action and Tial wastegate is on deck. Now I do have Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons, and as far as broken wrist pens, i have not encountered as of… Been running Wisecos for 3 years now, but if its pertaining to “High HP” then 328HP is not effecting my pistons.
Thanks guys, BigJim how did you like those cams? Since I will be putting new pistons and rods in the block should I go with 81 or 81.5? Would it be beneficial to bore my block out to 81.5? One of the guys I work with also works at a machine shop and he will be helping me put this all together, he has a lot of experience with building engines but much more domestic than foreign. So, more questions: what else should I do to the block and head to make sure my motor is reliable?
Please understand that my Crower cams were N/A stage 3 cams (sorry about the stage 2 typo).The cams were taken out after the turbo set up when I had a base map, and they were not at all cooperating with the turbo build. The loppy idle and constantly having to restart my car at every stop light and stop sign got old REAL quick (stop-and-go traffic jams were the worst)! A couple of days after, I took those damn things out and put my stock cams back in, and was much more happier.
I did put the cams back in when it was time for my full tune, but was not comfortable with them and eventually took them out again because the tuner recommended me to, since they were designed for N/A.
As far as your concerns of a healthy block, a good head gasket and a block guard, unless you plan on sleeving (which gets pretty pricey), and be sure to have a machine shop inspect your cylinder walls for scratches before the build.
So in review, here are the things needed to have a safe, reliable bottom end for boost:
-Have your block inspected (this will eliminate any trouble before the build even begins)
-Have your crank inspected, spun and balanced
-Have the machine shop hot tube/acid bath the block before assembly
-Rod bearings
-main bearings
-Pistons/piston rings
-Rods
-Head gasket
-ARP head studs
This expense should be around the neighborhood of $1,200-$1,500 with the machine shop hot tube/acid bath and reasembling the block. You should be able to boost with that kind of protection and peace of mind to the max amount of boost your tuner recommends, AND NO MORE.
If he says the max boost is 16psi for the engine mods you inform him of, then that is it. Dont get in the heat of the moment of competition and turn up your boost to 19psi and think that your piston aint gonna fly out your hood or your bearings spin and throw a rod.You can turn down the boost for daily driving, but dont turn it past its max.
Other additional protection:
-block guard, but…
-sleeving your block (a whole different subject that I cant give any info on)
-girdle
Like I said before, worry about the cylinder head at another time, where it is easy to take off and work on at a later date. Focus on other things like a stage 2 or 3 clutch, cv axles that can handle all that turbo power and down pipe. You may even have to go obd1, so a obd 1 distributor will be needed.
With your stated budget of $4k that you mentioned, dont skimp out on that bottom end. Protect your investment first with that block build/ then after the installation of your engine with the right injectors, turbo etc, a good tunning program paired with a reputable tuner can go a long way.
-Safe journey
-Best wishes
-Happy BOOSTING!
Thanks for the advice BigJim. I now know how I am going to approach this build. Block first, turbo kit and supporting parts, then headwork sometime in the future. Suspension on my car is koni/gc 550f 450r, strut bars, tie bars, rear sway bar, and ES bushings all around. I am planning on getting a stage 4 competition clutch, new axles, and aftermarket traction bar. O, and possibly new tranny with lsd if I have the funds… Also I am considering running an e-cutout after the downpipe. Anyone have experience with e-cutouts on forced induction builds?
to my knowledge all motor cams are making better power than turbo cams. take the jg303 cams. they were a all motor profile cam and is recommended to be the best for non vtec motors turbo. the crower 402t turbo cams are being traded for 403’s and 404 cams, and those both are all motor profile cams. the problem with reving your engine out to 8200 is that torque falls off horribly after 6500-6600 rpm. it’s a for sure thing that if your reving that high with stock cams that you probably see about half or less than half of your peak torque. do you rev that high for peak horsepower?
Those crower cams were tuned with my set-up, and I did notice the torque drop fall flat on its face on the graph chart. The tuner was informed that there was no head work to support the air flow combo (port and polish, 3 angle valve job, just stock cylinder head and no valves to complement the valve springs and retainers) and recommended that I take them out if I wanted to maintain decent torque on the top end with the stock cams.
I also took them out because of the stealthy set-up I wanted IF I had encountered a stop light challenge because the loppy sound that it attracted (and it was REAL obvious). I had painted my intercooler black so no one can see it and discarded any hints that a turbo was lurking under the hood. Even when I drive normally in low rpms in 1st and 2nd gear or start my car, you would not think that I was turbo’d until I let off the gas to go to 3rd gear when the blow-off valve goes off.
As for the 8.2rpms, I peaked at 328hp on the dyno, and have only enjoyed that high of rpms 3 times in the first two weeks after the tune. I started to become more conservative, and the power that I am making at 7.8rpms, I am content with. I might at times hit it to 8 grand and leave it from there, 8.2 is no more (even though I have a shift light to warn me when to shift, the stock LS tach redlines at 8k anyway).
this is taken from H-T ls Cam discussion: this BTW is from a reputable tuner,
Crower 62402T vs Crower 62404 Dyno Comparison We tuned a nice LS setup on Sunoco Maximal. First time in it made 450whp @ 28lbs/29lbs. Felt like something was holding it back. Both in vacuum and in boost. Took the Crower 62402-T cams out. Replaced them with Crower 62404 cams. Also added a 3" -> 4" downpipe. First pull it made 404whp @ 15lbs/16lbs. 470whp @ 19lbs/20lbs. 520whp @ 27lbs/28lbs but blew the intercooler piping off. With the larger 404’s the car made this power with three degrees less timing than the 402T’s. Made some changes to the intercooler piping. Going to dyno again Monday or Tuesday
:iagree:Interesting article you found, and that sounds like some promising and true numbers as I can estimate with what he has for that build. Unfortunatly for me, this goes to say that everyones build will not yeild the same results.
Reviewing over this persons list, must have helped him earn that type of power with his Crower cams. I see he had a Crower valve train, T1 cam trigger, a 4" down pipe, and a far more superior turbo (name brand snail than my ebay T3/T4) to help those cams perform for his set-up.
Just my experience and lack of head work did not treat me similar results.
I dunno. I just did not care about that extreme of cam and was more concerned about reliablity and what my tuner recommended I do. Maybe I got the 62404 Crower cams that were packaged in a box with the disclaimer saying, “RESULTS MAY VERY, depending on engine build”. (HAHAHALOL):sipread:
I run e85 on my DA and i’m making 408whp on e85 and 1000cc injectors. Make sure your block is in good condition and start from there. For e85 you would have to run a different fuel filter because e85 will destroy and clog the stock filter. I could make more power using 93 pump gas but i like e85 for its price and it keeps my iat’s down. A T3/T4 .57 trim with a stage 3 wheel should get you at 400 hp but you will reach its limits by then. As for head work, i would not push the car past redline on a stock valve train unless you want valve float or worse. Here is my set-up.
B18A1
Benson sleeved block
Crank balance and polished
blue printed block.
je pistons
eagle rods
of course new bearing and the usual stuff.
HEAD
Portflow head
Ported and polished
valve job
Ferrea valves
Titanium retainers
Dual crower springs
BC stage 2 all motor cams.
AEM cam gears