Digital - Next time you guys head down to Cali from Ontario, you should go through Seattle and stop at an autocross. I’d love to go for a ride in that thing. I’ll give you a ride in mine too.
sorry chs… the location demons strike again.
Both me and Pat live in Los Angeles/OC. Patrick is originally from Toronto and brought his car down when he moved to OC from Japan in 2004. He had left it there while he was gone.
I’d love to come up that way one of these days though… chances of bringing Pat’s car are about 0.001% since the 3 hour drive to the track last weekend gave me a headache I still cant get rid of.
haha, get over yourself. Your just some random person on a car forum and the fact you think I would devote that much time to even thinking of you is laughable. I just think after 3 damn months you still trying to act funny by bringing up old shit is pretty lame and sad. Especially since the whole time I was hoping you would EXPLAIN some things to me so I could learn something on the subject. Its kinda hard for me to understand why your such a dick to someone who was trying to learn some stuff from you?? Sorry I looked to you for information, I’ll never make that mistake again.
Please look through my post and actually show me some wrong information I was spreading. It should be pretty aparent I didnt really know what I was talking about. Everything I was stating was in question form and I was hoping you would explain to me why what I was thinking wasnt correct. If you werent so quick to be a ass I think you would of noticed that instead of taking everything I said as me challenging your knowledge.
I know your a knowledgeable person and thats why I was looking to you for some info. I just didnt realize you were such a arrogant asshole who instead of helping some noobs out that dont know anything on the subject would rather just talk shit and ridicule them. Thanks for the help bud. 
I seemed to get on you and Preston’s bad side pretty quickly for what seemed to me for no reason. Ive talked with Preston since and I’m cool with him now and he explained to me alot of stuff. Not just on this subject but why you were acting the way you were to me. I know you really dont have anything against me but if you want to continue to be a dick to me thats on you, no skin off my back. Or you can just forget about this one stupid thread and be civil.
Here:
Even though the you had already been proven wrong and admitted that you know nothing about this subject, you still assert that adding downforce to the rear of an FF car will make the car handle WORSE.
awww Vern’s such a good friend. I’ll have to thank him for that.
You should understand then, I felt as though I did explain everything, as clearly as I could. I made several really long posts with as much info and explanation as I could. Seriously, I look through this thread and see so much good aerodynamics/physics information, in good terms, I don’t understand how someone could say I wasn’t trying to explain and answer… I did in my eyes. Sorry if you took it as me not trying to help but I honestly don’t know how to come across any better than I did.
kowledge420, and what does that prove?? Nothing ever got explained to me why I was wrong. that was what I was thinking, and wanted to understand why I was wrong.
Never stated that to be truth.
HERE IS WHERE YOUR ANSWER WAS… BEFORE YOU EVEN ASKED!!!
Find out Pat’s suspension setup. If you look at it, you will see that the rear spring rates are higher than the front. This makes for a car that is more rear biased and will have the possibility to oversteer. Usually, FWD cars have higher front spring rates to promote predictable understeer.
By having downforce on the rear wheels, it is promoting rear grip to add more understeer and rear stability. At least that’s how I understand it…
:owned:
awww Vern’s such a good friend. I’ll have to thank him for that.
You should understand then, I felt as though I did explain everything, as clearly as I could. I made several really long posts with as much info and explanation as I could. Seriously, I look through this thread and see so much good aerodynamics/physics information, in good terms, I don’t understand how someone could say I wasn’t trying to explain and answer… I did in my eyes. Sorry if you took it as me not trying to help but I honestly don’t know how to come across any better than I did.
You right, you did explain alot. Everything I responded with was me just asking more questions. Sorry, its just the way I learn. I not only like to learn why some stuff works, but I also like to learn why some stuff doesnt work also. Thats was just how I saw stuff working in my head and wanted to know why it wasnt true.
Again, I never wanted to get flamed or come off as a know it all who doesnt know shit. I just wanted to learn some stuff. I thought it was aparent that I didnt know what I was talking about but you taking everything I said as challenging you means it wasnt aparent to everyone. Again, I dont have a problem with you if you dont have one with me. After talking with Preston, atleast the reason he gave me, you should know your problem really isnt with me.
HERE IS WHERE YOUR ANSWER WAS… BEFORE YOU EVEN ASKED!!!
I obviously didnt catch it. :bang:
That’s exactly what my problem was… not with you, not with your question, but with your, what I saw as, “challenging” what I was explaining to you. In my eyes, I knew the answer, I tried answering it, and you responded in unacceptance. To me, I don’t know what else to do but give you the answer, so I got frustrated. It happens all day here and everywhere, which is why my posting is few and far between.
I’m glad you’re trying to learn, but when I explain to you something you obviously think I have the answer to (otherwise you wouldn’t have asked me), at least acknowledge that you get that I’m right, you’re just stuck trying to make yourself understand why. That would help a TON, rather than make me think you’re saying I’m not right.
AHHHHH… now… only 15,000 other noobs to go… 
^aerodynamics noobs that is
I understood your point of view after talking with vern. I just wanted you to understand my point of view and the fact I was never trying to challenge anything you said. You explained quite a bit of stuff to me but to tell you the truth alot of it went over my head at first. And I think that might be alot of the reason why you took what I was saying as me challenging you, when in fact it was just me not understanding you.
Well hopefully this is cleared up now and you dont hold this damn thread against me anymore.
Honestly, I got over it a long time ago… if it ever really bothered me that much, which I don’t think it did.
I seriously just thought it would be funny for me, of all people the one who defended it the most, to post pictures of the car without the wing before a track event. Just as a joke, which is why I did it in a really old thread. I honestly didn’t think you’d take offense to it… didn’t really think that much about it honestly. Oh well, who cares. It works, we tried it without it and it works. Right now we have bigger problems to deal with…
I dunno, it just kinda urked me at first. Im glad I did post something in response though because atleast now it cleared up some stuff and maybe you’ll be more willing to lend some help when I have a question, instead of just saying ‘fuck this kid’ and moving on.
Yeah definately. I’m actually really glad you’re interested in learning about it.
I hope everyone is feeling better. I found this, it is really helpful to read:
http://www.gtechprosupport.com/support/
Click ‘Tech notes’ then ‘Effects of aero drag on hp’
This only talks about drag, not downforce. Don’t confuse them if you’re still learning.
Refer to the data I listed, and you can calculated the drag in hp at different speeds. Neat eh?
Digital Horizon: I just remembered that I can inter-library loan books at my college library, so the first book I ordered was this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0768002346/ref=pd_rhf_p_1/103-9021464-9010246?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155
Keep your eyes out for a good book, because I’ve got a cheap way to procure them now!
Wow, haven’t checked this thread in awhile. I was surprised to see Daniel posted those pics of the car without the Hiro Wing. Nice to see all the little problems got resolved anyway.
To comment on the FF downforce issue: All OE cars are designed with natural frontal down force (Hood, Windshield angles …), and they also have inherent rear lift caused from low air pressure above the trunk and under car turbulence, which in turn, creates high pressure. This is why Type R’s (and race cars) are engineered with Spoilers, to “Spoil” the low pressure air above the trunk line creating an air stream which balances out with the high pressure coming from underneath. This doesn’t ultimately or necessarily create down force but balances out any lift, which on a car with a short stroke damper (such as my DA) will result in less surface contact (very bad).
Front splitters have a profound effect. Because they cut into the air pocket on the front of any car and utilize that air to create a low pressure system underneath the splitter and a high pressure system above it.
Also, a note on bumper canards or splitters. They create spinning vortexes
that shoot air up the side of the car. this helps to keep air from slipping
underneath the side steps, or in the case of no side steps, from slipping
underneath the car completely, resulting in high pressure (again, reduced lift).
In retrospect; the key is to balance out your cars aerodynamics in collaboration with your suspension set-up, to maximize your power output (chassis and engine power).
I think someone asked about the aero parts again:
The side steps are OEM Honda Access. If anyone can find these floating around in Japan, Id be surprised cause they are nearly all extinct. I’ll hopefully be re-issuing these as a one-piece side step through Pancake Racing in Japan. These were very expensive, and I’m not sure if reproducing them would be cost effective.
The word on the other parts being made up: The USRacing front lips will be done around the end of March, and Im shooting to have them available at the beginning of April. The Hiro Wing re-issues will take longer as they require new molds and production is a little more complicated with the 2 piece process. I’m hoping to have those available mid April.
Pat
OK! Here’s the long overdue update on the Hori Rear Deck Spoiler re-issues and the USRacing Front Lips. They will be coming in from Japan at the end of April, and will be ready for delivery at the beginning of May.
Pricing:
DA Hiro Rear Deck Spoiler (Re-issue, made by Pancake Racing in Japan). The HIRO Rear Deck Spoiler comes in unpainted Black FRP, and come with 4 stay clips for easy installation. The fitment is perfect for all Hatchback 1990-1993 DA Integra’s. The cost is 300$ plus shipping which should be around 40-60$ from Orange County, CA. Delivery times will vary based on zip codes.
This is a very rare chance to get a real HIRO Rear Deck Spoiler (This is a discontinued item in Japan, and these are re-issued exclusively for Pancake Racing for sale in America)
DA USRacing Front Lip Spoiler: This is the original USRacing lip made specifically for Pancake Racing for sale in America. These are made from black Fiberglass instead of the original, which is made from white Fiberglass. The Lip Spoiler comes with all necessary mounting hardware for easy installation. The fitment is perfect for the 90-91 bumper. The cost is 250$ plus shipping which should be around 40-60$ from Orange County, CA. Delivery times will vary based on zip codes.
This is a very rare chance to get a real USRAcing front lip (This is the first time the USRacing front lip has been available for sale in America.
NOTE: THE USRACING FRONT LIP DOES NOT FIT ON THE 92-93 BUMPER
Those who have given me their contact info first will have first priority for availability. All of these must be prepaid in full to reserve your order. Only limited quantities available.
Get the combined package deal to turn your DA into a true JDM racing machine.
You get both, the HIRO Rear Deck Spoiler and USRacing Front Lip for 500$ plus shipping, which should be around 60-80$ from Orange County, CA.
If anyone has questions about these products, you should email me at tnd2gen@yahoo.com
Pat
How long will the wing be available? im VERY interested, but need some time to rack up some dough.
I believe they’re coming in very limited numbers, so I would assume not very long since there’s only a set amount for now, and once they’re gone, no telling when or if they’ll ever be back.