Originally posted by Blacura Hey secretagent, I would defietily like some of your knowledge. I had a b18 turbo an blew it up, but now I have a b16 and I want to program the ecu myself sort of like hondata, I need to know some parameters and how far I can push it on a stock bottom end.
hit me up on AIM. DonnellM is my SN. I’ll help you out as best I can.
If there are others here interested in a EMS write up let me know, and I’ll try to set aside some time to do it. Building 11 and 10 second honda street cars all day gets tiring.
Ok, I’m gunna add another level of complexity…
I’m going turbo on a 92 gsr… and eventually want to run obscene levels of boost…
For purposes of tuning, it’d be nice to have Hondata’s VTEC control and data logging…
For purposes of fun, it’d be nice to have launch control and full throttle shifting…
It’d be ideal to hook up the laptop and make changes while in the car…
Does a standalone eliminate the need for an MSD 6AL? or just the BTM?
why can’t we have electronic ignition?
I’ve been following this thread cause i am still trying to figure out what i will use with my turbo setup, how do you guys feel about the new profec e, its pretty much the same thing as the ems or am i wrong?
Modulus…Hondata will be your best bet. It does not eliminate the need for the 6AL, HOWEVER, the stock Honda Ignition system is more than adequate for 500hp. The 6al will bring power levels up a little, and eliminate a lot of risk of overrunning the ignition system. You won’t need the BTM tho, the Hondata will allow you to completely manipulate your timing control. If you like, I can make you a decent baseline program if you give me all the details of you setup and what kind of power you want. For a nominal charge of course. The program won’t be great, but it should be a good enough starting point for you. Hondata’s baseline’s aren’t exactly the best.
The Profec E seems really nice. However, I don’t know the details of the system, and haven’t been able to work with one yet. Last I checked tho, there aren’t any applications available for our cars.
For those running OBD0 90-91’s that i forgot to mention earlier, you can get an adapter harness to run an OBD1 ECU and Hondata.
Anothing thing I meant to say. Why does everyone want to mess with their programs so much? Once a car is tuned, you shouldn’t have to mess with it again. Both Hondata and Zdyne are very adaptive and unless you make major changes, a new program doesn’t have to be written. To those concerned about professional tuning costs: I charge 400 bucks flat rate to tune Hondata and Zdyne and that includes dyno time. Much less than buying all the tuning components yourself, and you get a guaranteed good tune. We have never blown a motor. We also use an FJO wideband while tuning. Many other shops are doing the same thing with Hondata, since it is so easy to tune, yo usually don’t have to worry about hourly rates. Anyways tho, just a heads up on tuning costs. And like I said, once it’s tuned and the program is burned, you won’t have to tune the car again. Even if there are weather or altitude changes.
SecretAgent: Well, I don’t really know of many places around here with experience tuning turbo’d hondas… i’ve only seen about 4 of them ever… so I don’t know what the chances are of finding a shop that kicks ass at it…
Also, the kit is going onto a stock motor… until the winter when (money allowing) i’ll be rebuilding the motor…
At which point I’ll run more boost…
bigger injectors… blah blah blah… it’ll need tuned again…
there goes another 400… or whatever…
The kit includes a vortech fmu, missing link, and check valves…
But I want to make sure that it’s getting the right fuel and timing…
So, do I sell the fmu / missing link, and just drop in a zdyne?
I plan on keeping the car for a long time, or if need be, swapping the good stuff onto another teg…
yeah, sell the FMU and missing link…those things are crap. with the money you get from that get some bigger injectors (at least 450’s), and a Zdyne if you have a 90-91.
You have to be careful w/ who you let tune your Zdyne tho. There are many many bugs in their program and if the tuner isn’t watching the program carefully it can royally screw things up. The program tends to not let you batch edit, and will often mess up on the Xpoint numbers. Gotta watch it close to make sure it’s doing what you tell it too. It also has a bad problem with randomly crashing. (this is all for the win2k/XP program, the 98 program is a little bit better).
Originally posted by Modulus
[B]It’s a 92 gsr… so should I go with the ZDyne, or the Hondata?
Or Mr. Davis’ version of the AFC Hack?
How safe is it to buy used 450cc injectors? i’d rather buy them new… [/B]
I just bought 450cc DSM injectors for $100 shipped on ebay and the guy had them sent to RC engineering to get blueprinted and balanced. These will work fine and are cheap compared to new RC’s. Save yourself some money. Go with the hondata, easier to tune and once it’s tuned your done, because it’s an adaptive program. Good luck with your project!
hondata is a great product if your running high boost and live near the dealer. otherwise vafc and dsm 450cc injectors own.
spend 1000+ for hondata plus the romediter and the eromprogramer just to tune. and no u don’t remove anything when u tune hondata u just hook up a laptop and repogram the ecu. but u will also need a wide band o2 sesnor and comuter to read the sensor. thats another 500 i know cause i own a wb set up.
vafc or smc+ for low boost is your best bet. anything over 10psi and hondata should be your only consideration. fmu and inlines are junk.
You can get a wb02 setup for much less than $500. Right now the sensors are hard to find though. Hondata is much less than 1000$ also. If you want good info on fuel management for Forced Induction you should visit honda-tech and search the archives. There is much better information there than you will find here.
DIY-WBO2 setup = $220-270. Speed Phreak kicked me a spare VX sensor out of pity for free, so I’m about $45 in the hole for the whole venture.
mos, two points:
You can’t get Hondata 4b/S200 for under $1000
Try searching HT’s archives. There are none. The posters there all advocate spending money over possessing intelligence.
So far the tech here hasn’t been bad, IMO. There are a number of fairly accomplished posters who give attention to this board where on HT it’s mob rule and favoritism… sometimes the signal is drown out by the noise.
Originally posted by Joseph Davis
[B]For all you LS/Zdyne guys, I have a PR4 tune with OEM correct fuel/ignition that came from Steven Dick aka Speed PHreak - some of you may or may not be familiar with him. I know there’s a nasty little webpage out there with a variety of .zdy tunes, but if you’re unfamiliar with it… now you know.
I wouldn’t trust an FMU setup pushing past 90 psi fuel pressure to not toast my engine eventually. Fuel pressures of over 60 psi start to shut the injector. Few fuel pumps can keep up with high pressures for more than a few seconds - research fuel pumps before going this route. The old claims of Hondas only being good for ~6-8 psi is because of the bad old FMU days. Some people have good luck with them - but they tune tune tune.
[/B]
can you explain what an oem correct tune is, and what effect that has on other components i will or will not need for <8psi. ie smc+450’s or just a programmer to fine tune?
i chose 8psi as my max cuz thats what people said is safe for stock internals and that happens to be the setting of my 14b. now since fmu’s are a thing of the past and the threshold is higher, how does that relate to the long term reliability of the motor? at what point does the wear become so rapid that a rebuild would be necessary or very near? ie just because my setup would now be able to handle 12-14psi w/o breaking any internals doesnt mean i will boost that high cuz surely the wear is much more rapid.
if the answer is more relative per case then i got a 90 b18a block with 175k, 95 head, ~190psi compression results, and i would like my motor to last 3-4 more years or 36k w/o needing a rebuild (i figure ill be out of school by then and will get a new(er) car). ive never done block internals but i do have a spare 98 head i got for cheap. i just hope i wont have to call upon it for duty
There are other options besides 4b which are less expensive. Also, even tho there is a lot of crap on HTFI, it is still a good source of information if you can sift through the crap. You should know that davis, you’re one of the people who posts gems there. If I understand correctly, the archives will be back up, so people will just have to wait. And if not, we’ll all post until there are some new archives. No board is perfect, but HT is one of the best going.
Yeah, I have learned a lot from HT’s FI Forum myself… the rest of the board is a bit silly, though. I didn’t mean to bash it, just warn ppl to keep their eyes + ears open. If it looks like I’m posting at 4am, you gotta cut me some slack as my thought processes are a touch muddy.
Some of the drag/suspension tech there is good, but I’m not up to speed on that stuff so it wouldn’t take much to impress me
I have the Hondata s200 and my car runs like a champ. I think once your car is tuned for optimum performance with a standalone there’s no point in making any changes to your tune just to gain 2 hp (unless your a pro racer). My tuner recommends AEM because of the features, but Hondata is good for a daily driver like me. You tune it up to the highest boost level you want and use a boost controller to control the power your wheels will see.
My setup:
92 DA with a 91 motor
Maxrev t3/t04e
Walbro 255
RC 440’s
Tial WG set at 6.5 psi
60mm exhaust (:tsk: )
stock cat
Tuned at DRT in New York= 193 hp and 172 lb/ft of torque…
I have a 92GSR as well and going forced induction pretty soon. I have all the turbo hardware i need already, but the first thing i installed was a full stand alone ECU. I have a LINK fully programmable ECU. LINK just recently touched on the Honda community. They actually were specifically just for Miatas and Subarus. Anyway, this ECU i seriously think you should look into. Easy to install, just remove your old ECU and put the new one in and you’re good to go. It comes with a base ignition and fuel map you can safely start with. If you have a laptop, it comes with a software and a PClink so you can tune on the fly. The software is very user-friendly and really easy to follow. I tuned my car and learned how the software worked in less than a a couple of weeks. (Ofcourse, idle still needs a little trimming…you’ll find idle tuning’s gonna be a b!tc4). Pretty much all the aspect of the car is programmable! Also, datalogging and 3d mapping is available in the software. Furthermore, once you install your turbo, you’ll be able to control your boost for every RPM. Ofcourse, with tuning, you need a little bit of knowledge and there is always the need for the experienced. Dyno is still a must for any application if you wanna optimize your car’s performance.
The price is as much as a hondata, or probably less last time i checked. And it comes with the software for tuning! Unlike hondata where you have to buy it separately! I paid $1k for it, but now i think you can get it for less than that.
I want to let the G2 community know of this application. That there is something else available for us out there.
…and, i wanna have somebody to talk to 'bout this. It seems like i’m the only one in the Honda community using this…
I’ve got the diy wb02 setup also. Works great and cost less than 300 bux. I love HT because there are no condescending know-nothing mods over there telling me 3psi is the max safe boost on an LS without an intercooler… like there are here. Its hard to learn from a board when all you get is misinformation.
Originally posted by mos I’ve got the diy wb02 setup also. Works great and cost less than 300 bux. I love HT because there are no condescending know-nothing mods over there telling me 3psi is the max safe boost on an LS without an intercooler… like there are here. Its hard to learn from a board when all you get is misinformation.
Haha, actually formz isnt a mod He just thinks he is ^^ Do you still have your t25 b18a? I do and i love it
300 eh? what do you use to view the readout if regular devices are too slow to read the rapid fluctuations?
so with this wbo2, an egt, and something to tune ignition/fuel, is that pretty much it for a good reliable tune? well except the dyno and actual knowledge/experience to do it. maybe i can have some friends chip in so we can tune them ourselves…
Originally posted by SecretAgent
[B]hit me up on AIM. DonnellM is my SN. I’ll help you out as best I can.
If there are others here interested in a EMS write up let me know, and I’ll try to set aside some time to do it. Building 11 and 10 second honda street cars all day gets tiring. [/B]
can i get some of that help too?